What is the ruling on the hadith: (When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) greeted us, we would say, "And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings and His forgiveness")?
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The questioner : There is a question regarding the hadith that you authenticated
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : The question is not about the jurisprudence of hadith or the permissibility of adding, and we know your answer that if we were to criticize the hadith as weak, we have the Qur'an supporting it, but the question is about a hadithological issue in which we want to know your opinion.
You mentioned only one route for this hadith and did not authenticate it, or you said about it: "This is a good chain, its narrators are trustworthy," so you did not grade its chain as good or say that its chain is good, and in this chain there is a man named Ibrahim ibn al-Mukhtar al-Razi, and about al-Razi you said: "A group of trustworthy men narrated from him, and Ibn Hibban mentioned him, then he said, 'I asked my father about him, and he said: He is a good narrator of hadith, and he is more acceptable to me than Salama ibn al-Fadl and Ali ibn Mujahid. This Salama is one whose narrations are abandoned.'"
Then you mentioned in a good and subtle research in the third volume of al-Du'afa' regarding al-Razi's statement from Ibn Abi Hatim: "He is a good narrator of hadith," and you concluded after a long discussion in which you refuted some of the doctors, saying: "This is a text from him that the phrase 'good narrator of hadith,' after mentioning the words I think his son mentioned in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dil: "If it is said of a man that he is trustworthy, or precise, or firm, then he is one whose hadith is used as evidence. If it is said that he is truthful, or his position is truthfulness, or there is no harm in him, then he is one whose hadith is written down and looked into, and this is the second rank. If it is said he is a shaykh, then he is in the third rank, his hadith is written down and looked into, but he is below the second rank. If it is said he is a good narrator of hadith" you underlined it in black.
The Shaykh : Yes, I do.
The questioner :"And if it is said he is a good narrator of hadith, then his hadith is written down for consideration. And if they answer regarding a man with 'soft hadith,' then he is one whose hadith is written down and looked into for consideration."
The Shaykh : And if what?
The questioner :"And if they answer regarding a man: with 'soft hadith,' then it is possible that his hadith is written down and looked into for consideration."
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Then you said this is a text from him that the phrase: "good narrator of hadith" is like their saying "soft hadith", his hadith is written down for consideration and corroborating narrations, and the meaning of that is that it is not used as evidence. This phrase is from the terms of criticism, not vindication, according to Abu Hatim. I say after this digression: I do not know what you say about this hadith in this chain that you graded as good?
The Shaykh : The answer is with you.
The questioner : So do you see that this hadith with this chain is not authentic?
The Shaykh : The answer is with you here, did you read the entire research?
The questioner : I say this in another place, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I know.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Is that other place a response to those who weakened this hadith in a topic?
The questioner : No, no, in another topic, in the hadith:Sunan Ibn Majah 355Hasan (Darussalam).
The Shaykh : ...
The questioner : I say this in another hadith.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : When I read your grading of this hadith, the hadith of the greeting.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I went back to the narrators of the hadith's chain.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : And al-Razi's statement in this hadith caught my attention: "good narrator of hadith" regarding this man, Ibrahim al-Mukhtar al-Razi.
The Shaykh : Yes, I do.
The questioner : Then I reviewed your words regarding Ibrahim al-Mukhtar, I mean regarding the phrase "good narrator of hadith" according to Ibn Abi Hatim, and you concluded.
The Shaykh : In which hadith?
The questioner : In another hadith:Sunan ad-Daraqutni 1:150 and so on.
The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : This statement is in al-Du'afa' in the third volume, you said: "Weak with this wording"
The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : And there are those who authenticated this hadith, and you, I mean, your words were about weakening this hadith because of a man about whom Ibn Abi Hatim said he is a good narrator of hadith, so you digressed in the speech to clarify that when Ibn Abi Hatim says of a man "good narrator of hadith", it is from the terms of criticism, not vindication, in his view.
The Shaykh : I understood you, okay.
The questioner : So I want to apply your words.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Regarding Ibn Abi Hatim's statement about the man, "good narrator of hadith."
The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.
The questioner : To Ibrahim al-Mukhtar in the hadith of the greeting for which you did not mention another chain, or for which you graded the chain as good, even though it contains Ibrahim al-Mukhtar about whom Ibn Abi Hatim said he is a good narrator of hadith. So if we say that Ibn Abi Hatim's statement "good narrator of hadith" means "soft" and is from the terms of criticism, how can this chain be graded as good?
The Shaykh : Did he say "soft" and stop, or was there an extra phrase?
The questioner : He said "good narrator of hadith," then he said: "And he is more acceptable to me than Salama ibn al-Fadl."
The Shaykh : No, no, what did he say? Is it considered or what did he say?
The questioner : Ibn Abi Hatim's words?
The Shaykh : Yes, he did.
The questioner : The son's words said if it is said "good narrator of hadith," then his hadith is written down for consideration.
The Shaykh : For consideration.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : You know what consideration means, without a doubt.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And what is it?
The questioner : It means the hadith is considered, meaning other routes of the hadith are looked into until it is supported.
The Shaykh : It means that in which this narrator is included, it is possible that the hadith is established or not established.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Is that not so? Okay, so now this hadith in which this man is included, about whom the man Abu Hatim said "good narrator of hadith," was something found to corroborate it or not?
The questioner : As far as I know, there is something that corroborates it from the Book, not from the Sunnah.
The Shaykh : And the athar that were mentioned.
The questioner : You did not mention anything, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : You did not mention athar.
The Shaykh : In some books.
The questioner : I mean, I will read to you your words here in this
The Shaykh : No, I remind you, since you are following the topic, you must be aware of what I will point out. Did not one of our brother students send me a letter rambling about what you say about weakening this man or another, I do not remember now, so I wrote a response to him. Did this pass by you?
The questioner : Yes, I think in the introduction of this book.
The Shaykh : Good, so in the introduction, did you not see the athar that corroborate this hadith?
The questioner : I think they are athar, but as far as I remember, I am far from the introduction, but I do not remember that there is another route for the hadith raised to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
The Shaykh : I am not asking about another route, may Allah reward you. In short, I am telling you here two things, and therefore the issue of "good for consideration" is a matter like some of the matters that preceded just now. And you, now when we asked you what is the meaning of "good for consideration"? It means this narrator is stopped at and considered: is what he narrated a denunciation that he is unique in, or is it something that has something to corroborate it? In that case, it becomes suitable for evidence and is good.
So first of all, what you pointed out in your first words, that the verse is not investigated, because it is a settled matter in its indication.
When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) greeted us, we would say, "And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings and His forgiveness"
كنا إذا سلم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم علينا قلنا وعليك السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته ومغفرتهThe Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : The question is not about the jurisprudence of hadith or the permissibility of adding
and His forgiveness
ومغفرتهYou mentioned only one route for this hadith and did not authenticate it, or you said about it: "This is a good chain, its narrators are trustworthy," so you did not grade its chain as good or say that its chain is good, and in this chain there is a man named Ibrahim ibn al-Mukhtar al-Razi, and about al-Razi you said: "A group of trustworthy men narrated from him, and Ibn Hibban mentioned him, then he said, 'I asked my father about him, and he said: He is a good narrator of hadith, and he is more acceptable to me than Salama ibn al-Fadl and Ali ibn Mujahid. This Salama is one whose narrations are abandoned.'"
Then you mentioned in a good and subtle research in the third volume of al-Du'afa' regarding al-Razi's statement from Ibn Abi Hatim: "He is a good narrator of hadith," and you concluded after a long discussion in which you refuted some of the doctors, saying: "This is a text from him that the phrase 'good narrator of hadith,' after mentioning the words I think his son mentioned in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dil: "If it is said of a man that he is trustworthy, or precise, or firm, then he is one whose hadith is used as evidence. If it is said that he is truthful, or his position is truthfulness, or there is no harm in him, then he is one whose hadith is written down and looked into, and this is the second rank. If it is said he is a shaykh, then he is in the third rank, his hadith is written down and looked into, but he is below the second rank. If it is said he is a good narrator of hadith" you underlined it in black.
The Shaykh : Yes, I do.
The questioner :"And if it is said he is a good narrator of hadith, then his hadith is written down for consideration. And if they answer regarding a man with 'soft hadith,' then he is one whose hadith is written down and looked into for consideration."
The Shaykh : And if what?
The questioner :"And if they answer regarding a man: with 'soft hadith,' then it is possible that his hadith is written down and looked into for consideration."
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Then you said this is a text from him that the phrase: "good narrator of hadith" is like their saying "soft hadith", his hadith is written down for consideration and corroborating narrations, and the meaning of that is that it is not used as evidence. This phrase is from the terms of criticism, not vindication, according to Abu Hatim. I say after this digression: I do not know what you say about this hadith in this chain that you graded as good?
The Shaykh : The answer is with you.
The questioner : So do you see that this hadith with this chain is not authentic?
The Shaykh : The answer is with you here, did you read the entire research?
The questioner : I say this in another place, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : I know.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Is that other place a response to those who weakened this hadith in a topic?
The questioner : No, no, in another topic, in the hadith:
O Ansar! Allah has praised you
يا معشر الأنصار إن الله قد أثنى عليكمThe Shaykh : ...
The questioner : I say this in another hadith.
The Shaykh : Very well.
The questioner : When I read your grading of this hadith, the hadith of the greeting.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : I went back to the narrators of the hadith's chain.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : And al-Razi's statement in this hadith caught my attention: "good narrator of hadith" regarding this man, Ibrahim al-Mukhtar al-Razi.
The Shaykh : Yes, I do.
The questioner : Then I reviewed your words regarding Ibrahim al-Mukhtar, I mean regarding the phrase "good narrator of hadith" according to Ibn Abi Hatim, and you concluded.
The Shaykh : In which hadith?
The questioner : In another hadith:
O you Ansar, indeed Allah has praised you with good regarding the purification. So what is your purification?
يا معشر الأنصار إن الله قد أثنى عليكم خيرا في الطهور فما طهوركم هذا ؟The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : This statement is in al-Du'afa' in the third volume, you said: "Weak with this wording"
The Shaykh : Fine.
The questioner : And there are those who authenticated this hadith, and you, I mean, your words were about weakening this hadith because of a man about whom Ibn Abi Hatim said he is a good narrator of hadith, so you digressed in the speech to clarify that when Ibn Abi Hatim says of a man "good narrator of hadith", it is from the terms of criticism, not vindication, in his view.
The Shaykh : I understood you, okay.
The questioner : So I want to apply your words.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Regarding Ibn Abi Hatim's statement about the man, "good narrator of hadith."
The Shaykh : Yes, that is correct.
The questioner : To Ibrahim al-Mukhtar in the hadith of the greeting for which you did not mention another chain, or for which you graded the chain as good, even though it contains Ibrahim al-Mukhtar about whom Ibn Abi Hatim said he is a good narrator of hadith. So if we say that Ibn Abi Hatim's statement "good narrator of hadith" means "soft" and is from the terms of criticism, how can this chain be graded as good?
The Shaykh : Did he say "soft" and stop, or was there an extra phrase?
The questioner : He said "good narrator of hadith," then he said: "And he is more acceptable to me than Salama ibn al-Fadl."
The Shaykh : No, no, what did he say? Is it considered or what did he say?
The questioner : Ibn Abi Hatim's words?
The Shaykh : Yes, he did.
The questioner : The son's words said if it is said "good narrator of hadith," then his hadith is written down for consideration.
The Shaykh : For consideration.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : You know what consideration means, without a doubt.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And what is it?
The questioner : It means the hadith is considered, meaning other routes of the hadith are looked into until it is supported.
The Shaykh : It means that in which this narrator is included, it is possible that the hadith is established or not established.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Is that not so? Okay, so now this hadith in which this man is included, about whom the man Abu Hatim said "good narrator of hadith," was something found to corroborate it or not?
The questioner : As far as I know, there is something that corroborates it from the Book, not from the Sunnah.
The Shaykh : And the athar that were mentioned.
The questioner : You did not mention anything, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh : How?
The questioner : You did not mention athar.
The Shaykh : In some books.
The questioner : I mean, I will read to you your words here in this
The Shaykh : No, I remind you, since you are following the topic, you must be aware of what I will point out. Did not one of our brother students send me a letter rambling about what you say about weakening this man or another, I do not remember now, so I wrote a response to him. Did this pass by you?
The questioner : Yes, I think in the introduction of this book.
The Shaykh : Good, so in the introduction, did you not see the athar that corroborate this hadith?
The questioner : I think they are athar, but as far as I remember, I am far from the introduction, but I do not remember that there is another route for the hadith raised to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
The Shaykh : I am not asking about another route, may Allah reward you. In short, I am telling you here two things, and therefore the issue of "good for consideration" is a matter like some of the matters that preceded just now. And you, now when we asked you what is the meaning of "good for consideration"? It means this narrator is stopped at and considered: is what he narrated a denunciation that he is unique in, or is it something that has something to corroborate it? In that case, it becomes suitable for evidence and is good.
So first of all, what you pointed out in your first words, that the verse is not investigated, because it is a settled matter in its indication.