I have a quantity of bags of rice in our warehouse in Wadi al-Dawasir, and people come to me to buy it from me at its market value, and they put it on credit for other people.
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The questioner : He says: I have a quantity of bags of rice in our warehouse in Wadi al-Dawasir. People come to me and buy it from me at its market value, and they put it on credit for other people. When it becomes the debtor's turn, I take it from him at a discount of one riyal from what he bought from me. Then people like them come after it becomes my turn and buy it, and so on. It is in one place, but they take possession of it by counting it at its location. Is there any sin in this method? Please inform us, and may you have abundant thanks?
The Shaykh : Yes, this method is a stratagem to commit riba, the severe riba that combines both delay and excess, meaning both riba al-nasi'ah and riba al-fadl. This is because the creditor uses it to obtain twelve for ten.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Sometimes the creditor and the debtor agree on this before going to the shopkeeper, agreeing that he will put it on credit for so much, ten becoming twelve, or more, or less. Then they come to this shopkeeper to carry out this stratagem with him. The Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) named this method the triple stratagem, and it is undoubtedly a stratagem to commit riba, both riba al-nasi'ah and riba al-fadl.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : It is forbidden and among the major sins. This is because the forbidden does not become permissible by stratagems to circumvent it; rather, circumventing it increases its wickedness and increases the sin. For this reason, it was mentioned regarding Ayub al-Sakhtiyani (may Allah have mercy on him) that he said about these people who use stratagems: "They deceive Allah just as they deceive children. If they had done the matter in its proper form, it would have been easier.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And he spoke the truth (may Allah have mercy on him), for the one who uses a stratagem is a deceiver in the position of the hypocrite with the open disbeliever. The hypocrite displays that he is a believer while he is a disbeliever. This one who uses a stratagem to commit riba displays that his sale and contract are a valid and lawful sale, while in reality it is forbidden. And Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, made the disbelief of the hypocrites greater than the disbelief of those who declare it openly.
The questioner : There is no power and no strength
The Shaykh : As He said:[An-Nisa 4:145] Thus, this one who uses a stratagem to commit riba is more sinful than the one who commits open riba.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Furthermore, he is in an even worse state. How? Because this one who uses a stratagem feels that he is on a sound path, so he continues and does not feel ashamed of Allah, nor does he turn away from his error. Unlike the one who does the thing openly, who feels shame before Allah and that he has committed a sin, and he tries to get rid of it through repentance. Therefore, this one is in a worse state and outcome than the one who commits open riba. As for the issue of counting it while it is in its place, and they made that a form of taking possession, some people issued a fatwa on this, for themselves or others, based on the statement of the jurists (may Allah have mercy on them): "Possession of what is sold is achieved by counting it." In my view, from the perspective of the Shari'ah, it is necessary, in addition to that, for there to be taking possession, which is complete control where the thing is in your grip and under your custody. But if it is sold by counting, it is necessary, in addition to it being in your custody and in his possession, for it to be counted.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : If this is what the jurists intended, then that is his intention. If it is not their intention, then this is what the Shari'ah evidence requires: that taking possession means the thing is in your grip. But if it has been sold by counting, weighing, or measuring, or ..., then it is necessary for these things to exist to complete the taking of possession.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And supporting this is that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)Sunan Abi Dawud 3499Hasan li ghairih (Al-Albani) meaning where it is bought, i.e., in the place where it was bought, until the merchants take it to their dwellings. This is one of the paths to prohibiting this transaction that the brother referred to.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the first path is that it is a stratagem and deception to commit riba, riba al-fadl and riba al-nasi'ah. The second path is that it is a disobedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), where he prohibited selling goods where they are bought until the merchants take them to their dwellings.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And it is very sad, and truly, that many people deal in this way, as the brother indicated, thinking that it is a form of tawarruq that some scholars have permitted.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But that is not a form of tawarruq. For this reason, you find that scholars, such as the Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him), when he mentioned tawarruq, mentioned the disagreement of the scholars regarding it. And when he mentioned this triple stratagem, he said that this is undoubtedly riba. That indicates that it has nothing to do with the issue of tawarruq.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And it is also clear, for tawarruq, as the scholars said, is when a person needs dirhams, so he buys what is worth one hundred for one hundred and ten, for example, for a term. Here, you find in the issue of tawarruq that the purchase was made for the specific item, that it is intended, and that there is no agreement between the creditor and the debtor on the profit before ownership. Because the creditor and the debtor in the scenario indicated by the questioner agreed on the profit before ownership. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited the profit of what is not guaranteed, meaning what is not in your guarantee, under your ownership, and under your control.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the profit in it is prohibited, and this one profits from what he has not guaranteed and what is not in his guarantee, meaning the creditor's.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Furthermore, this transaction differs from tawarruq in that tawarruq, as we indicated, involves buying the item itself, wanting it specifically to sell it. So you find him turning it over and looking at it, looking at its type and kind. But this stratagem, or this scenario indicated by the questioner,
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : the creditor does not care what is in these bags. Perhaps these bags have been eaten by weevils, or perhaps eaten by termites, or perhaps they have rotted, because they are not carried, nor looked at, nor thought about. In my opinion, if this shopkeeper, the warehouse owner, brought bags filled with sand,
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : and said these are bags of sugar, or bags of whatever, and then sold them to the creditor and sold them to the debtor, and that one bought them at a discount, in my opinion the transaction would proceed.
The questioner : Yes, yes.
The Shaykh : Because, as far as we hear, they do not think, nor turn them over, nor look at them. So, by Allah, O people, compare this stratagem with the saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him):Sahih al-Bukhari 4633 meaning they melted it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh :Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1297Sahih (Darussalam) So look, which is closer to the image of the forbidden? The action of the Jews, whom the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) invoked against with Allah fighting them, i.e., cursing them, according to one opinion, or destroying them, according to what we see. For the meaning of "May Allah fight such-and-such" is that He destroys them.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because whoever is fought by Allah is defeated and killed. In any case, the Muslim must look at which is closer to the image of the forbidden: what the Jews did, whom the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) invoked against with what he invoked against them, or this scenario that these people who use stratagems do, and we hope that Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, will open up for them and prepare for them a permissible path.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : The permissible path, for example, is that they use salam, even if I lengthened the answer, because the need and necessity are driving ... .
The questioner : ... May Allah bless you.
The Shaykh : That they use the method of salam, which was known in the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
The questioner : O Allah, send blessings and peace upon him.
The Shaykh : By the creditor offering dirhams to buy a commodity that is delivered to him by the debtor when the term arrives. For example, he says: "Here are ten thousand riyals in cash. Take them on the condition that you bring me a car of such-and-such model after one year."
The car is worth eight thousand, twelve thousand riyals in cash.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But because of the advance, it became ten thousand. So the creditor profits two thousand, and that one benefited from the dirhams and made use of them. This method is a sound method brought by the Shari'ah, but people do not use it. Why? Because the creditor says: if I do this thing, perhaps the time will come, the time of maturity, and cars are cheap, so I will not have a profit.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So they avoid it. And there is also another path: if a man needs a specific commodity, instead of going around with this forbidden method, he goes to the owner of the commodity who has it and buys it itself, buys it specifically. He says: "Sell me this, and it is worth ten, for example." He says: "Sell it to me for twelve thousand, or fifteen thousand, or something like that."
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the intention behind this contract is the specific commodity itself, and this is a sound method with no harm in it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, if one’s intention is pure, and he fears Allah (Mighty and Majestic) and is mindful of Allah, then Allah will make his affairs easy for him, and Allah the Exalted will provide for him from where he does not expect.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
O my brothers, we have reached this point.
The Shaykh : Yes, this method is a stratagem to commit riba, the severe riba that combines both delay and excess, meaning both riba al-nasi'ah and riba al-fadl. This is because the creditor uses it to obtain twelve for ten.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Sometimes the creditor and the debtor agree on this before going to the shopkeeper, agreeing that he will put it on credit for so much, ten becoming twelve, or more, or less. Then they come to this shopkeeper to carry out this stratagem with him. The Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) named this method the triple stratagem, and it is undoubtedly a stratagem to commit riba, both riba al-nasi'ah and riba al-fadl.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : It is forbidden and among the major sins. This is because the forbidden does not become permissible by stratagems to circumvent it; rather, circumventing it increases its wickedness and increases the sin. For this reason, it was mentioned regarding Ayub al-Sakhtiyani (may Allah have mercy on him) that he said about these people who use stratagems: "They deceive Allah just as they deceive children. If they had done the matter in its proper form, it would have been easier.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And he spoke the truth (may Allah have mercy on him), for the one who uses a stratagem is a deceiver in the position of the hypocrite with the open disbeliever. The hypocrite displays that he is a believer while he is a disbeliever. This one who uses a stratagem to commit riba displays that his sale and contract are a valid and lawful sale, while in reality it is forbidden. And Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, made the disbelief of the hypocrites greater than the disbelief of those who declare it openly.
The questioner : There is no power and no strength
The Shaykh : As He said:
Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire - and never will you find for them a helper -
إن المنافقين في الدرك الأسفل من النار ولن تجد لهم نصيراThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Furthermore, he is in an even worse state. How? Because this one who uses a stratagem feels that he is on a sound path, so he continues and does not feel ashamed of Allah, nor does he turn away from his error. Unlike the one who does the thing openly, who feels shame before Allah and that he has committed a sin, and he tries to get rid of it through repentance. Therefore, this one is in a worse state and outcome than the one who commits open riba. As for the issue of counting it while it is in its place, and they made that a form of taking possession, some people issued a fatwa on this, for themselves or others, based on the statement of the jurists (may Allah have mercy on them): "Possession of what is sold is achieved by counting it." In my view, from the perspective of the Shari'ah, it is necessary, in addition to that, for there to be taking possession, which is complete control where the thing is in your grip and under your custody. But if it is sold by counting, it is necessary, in addition to it being in your custody and in his possession, for it to be counted.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : If this is what the jurists intended, then that is his intention. If it is not their intention, then this is what the Shari'ah evidence requires: that taking possession means the thing is in your grip. But if it has been sold by counting, weighing, or measuring, or ..., then it is necessary for these things to exist to complete the taking of possession.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And supporting this is that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him)
forbade to sell the goods where they are bought
نهى أن تُباع السلع حيث تُبتاعThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the first path is that it is a stratagem and deception to commit riba, riba al-fadl and riba al-nasi'ah. The second path is that it is a disobedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), where he prohibited selling goods where they are bought until the merchants take them to their dwellings.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And it is very sad, and truly, that many people deal in this way, as the brother indicated, thinking that it is a form of tawarruq that some scholars have permitted.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But that is not a form of tawarruq. For this reason, you find that scholars, such as the Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him), when he mentioned tawarruq, mentioned the disagreement of the scholars regarding it. And when he mentioned this triple stratagem, he said that this is undoubtedly riba. That indicates that it has nothing to do with the issue of tawarruq.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : And it is also clear, for tawarruq, as the scholars said, is when a person needs dirhams, so he buys what is worth one hundred for one hundred and ten, for example, for a term. Here, you find in the issue of tawarruq that the purchase was made for the specific item, that it is intended, and that there is no agreement between the creditor and the debtor on the profit before ownership. Because the creditor and the debtor in the scenario indicated by the questioner agreed on the profit before ownership. And the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prohibited the profit of what is not guaranteed, meaning what is not in your guarantee, under your ownership, and under your control.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the profit in it is prohibited, and this one profits from what he has not guaranteed and what is not in his guarantee, meaning the creditor's.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Furthermore, this transaction differs from tawarruq in that tawarruq, as we indicated, involves buying the item itself, wanting it specifically to sell it. So you find him turning it over and looking at it, looking at its type and kind. But this stratagem, or this scenario indicated by the questioner,
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : the creditor does not care what is in these bags. Perhaps these bags have been eaten by weevils, or perhaps eaten by termites, or perhaps they have rotted, because they are not carried, nor looked at, nor thought about. In my opinion, if this shopkeeper, the warehouse owner, brought bags filled with sand,
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : and said these are bags of sugar, or bags of whatever, and then sold them to the creditor and sold them to the debtor, and that one bought them at a discount, in my opinion the transaction would proceed.
The questioner : Yes, yes.
The Shaykh : Because, as far as we hear, they do not think, nor turn them over, nor look at them. So, by Allah, O people, compare this stratagem with the saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him):
May Allah curse the Jews! When Allah forbade them to eat the fat of animals, they melted it
قاتل الله اليهود إنه لما حرم الله عليهم شحومها جملوهThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh :
sold it, and consumed its price.
ثم باعوه فأكلوا ثمنهThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because whoever is fought by Allah is defeated and killed. In any case, the Muslim must look at which is closer to the image of the forbidden: what the Jews did, whom the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) invoked against with what he invoked against them, or this scenario that these people who use stratagems do, and we hope that Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, will open up for them and prepare for them a permissible path.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : The permissible path, for example, is that they use salam, even if I lengthened the answer, because the need and necessity are driving ... .
The questioner : ... May Allah bless you.
The Shaykh : That they use the method of salam, which was known in the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).
The questioner : O Allah, send blessings and peace upon him.
The Shaykh : By the creditor offering dirhams to buy a commodity that is delivered to him by the debtor when the term arrives. For example, he says: "Here are ten thousand riyals in cash. Take them on the condition that you bring me a car of such-and-such model after one year."
The car is worth eight thousand, twelve thousand riyals in cash.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But because of the advance, it became ten thousand. So the creditor profits two thousand, and that one benefited from the dirhams and made use of them. This method is a sound method brought by the Shari'ah, but people do not use it. Why? Because the creditor says: if I do this thing, perhaps the time will come, the time of maturity, and cars are cheap, so I will not have a profit.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So they avoid it. And there is also another path: if a man needs a specific commodity, instead of going around with this forbidden method, he goes to the owner of the commodity who has it and buys it itself, buys it specifically. He says: "Sell me this, and it is worth ten, for example." He says: "Sell it to me for twelve thousand, or fifteen thousand, or something like that."
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So the intention behind this contract is the specific commodity itself, and this is a sound method with no harm in it.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, if one’s intention is pure, and he fears Allah (Mighty and Majestic) and is mindful of Allah, then Allah will make his affairs easy for him, and Allah the Exalted will provide for him from where he does not expect.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
O my brothers, we have reached this point.