His other question states that some of these merchants who extend credit, when the debt comes due on this poor man, the debtor says to him, “I am your father, so be patient with me for two or three months, or less or more.”
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The questioner : His other question states that some of these merchants who extend credit, when the debt comes due on this poor man, the debtor says to him, “I am your father, so be patient with me for two or three months, or less or more.” The creditor, the one with the right, says, “No, I will turn it around on you. Come to me and buy, for example, a qatm of cardamom, and I will sell it to you. Then you take it, sell it, and pay me my right. Is this permissible, or does it fall under riba? Please give us a ruling, and may Allah reward you with good.”
The Shaykh : This transaction is not permissible; rather, it is riba. However, it is riba wrapped in treachery and deception. Deception of whom? Of Allah, Lord of the worlds, who knows the treachery of the eyes and what the breasts conceal. This is the riba they used to practice in the pre-Islamic age of ignorance. When the debt came due, the creditor would say to the debtor: “Either you pay, or you increase it.” If he increased it and the time came again, he would increase it a second time, and a third time, and so on. This is what is referred to in the saying of Allah the Exalted:[Ali 'Imran 3:130-132] This is a vile deed because it combines riba and deception. It is in the position of the action of the hypocrite who displays Islam outwardly while concealing disbelief inwardly.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : This makes it appear that his transaction is sound, because it is a sale and purchase of this qatm of cardamom. In reality, it is the very essence of riba, but he is using a stratagem to circumvent it. The one who uses stratagems to circumvent the prohibitions of Allah is more sinful than the one who commits them openly.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because it combines the harm of this prohibition with the harm of deceiving Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He. This is mocking Allah and challenging Him. For this reason, Ayub al-Sakhtiyani (may Allah have mercy on him) said about these people who use stratagems: “They deceive Allah as they deceive children. If they had done the matter in its proper form, it would have been easier.”
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : These deceivers regarding riba, in the form mentioned by the brother Abd al-Rahman or in other forms, cannot be turned away from what they are doing because they believe that what they are doing is sound. The one who believes that what he is doing is sound cannot be turned away from it. They say, as the hypocrites say:[Al-Baqarah 2:11] So they hardly turn away from their action. As for the one who commits riba openly, he knows that he has committed a forbidden act. You find this action always before his eyes. You find him ashamed of Allah, Mighty and Majestic, remembering his sin every hour, and it is possible that he will repent. But this one is the opposite. This is a great harm that befalls those who commit the prohibitions of Allah through stratagems.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Some students of knowledge think that this issue is the issue of tawarruq, about which the scholars differed and the jurists permitted it in the well-known position of the school of Imam Ahmad. However, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah forbids it and is certain of its prohibition. Refer to that for details. But I refuse to accept anything other than that it is forbidden, meaning the issue of tawarruq.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But this issue is not like the issue of tawarruq, and it cannot be compared to it, because it is explicit riba. The issue of tawarruq, as the jurists described it, is that a man needs dirhams, so he buys a commodity from a person for one hundred, paying one hundred and twenty, for example, on a deferred basis. Then he takes it, disposes of it, and meets his need with its value. As for this, they explicitly agreed on murabahah before this formal contract that is not intended. There is a difference between the two. For this reason, when Shaykh al-Islam mentioned the issue of tawarruq, he mentioned two opinions from the scholars. But when he mentioned this form, where a person agrees with another to give him ten dirhams for thirteen, or eleven, or something similar, he said: “This is riba without doubt.” He did not report any disagreement in it. This indicates the difference between the two issues.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : What the brother Abd al-Rahman mentioned is even greater than what I said, because it is explicit that he is forcing this distressed person into riba, even though Allah says:[Al-Baqarah 2:280] So Allah the Exalted made it obligatory to grant the distressed person a respite. But this man has disobeyed Allah; he did not grant him a respite and did not show mercy to this poor man. Rather, he increased his debt.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, my advice to my brother merchants is to abandon this transaction and turn to what Allah has permitted for them from types of trade, such as mudarabah and musharakah, and others, so that they may leave the world in peace. Let them not burden themselves with the fire of these dirhams and their loss, and let the fruits and profits of them belong to others.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : The brother Abd al-Rahman al-Sayf from Buraydah.
The Shaykh : This transaction is not permissible; rather, it is riba. However, it is riba wrapped in treachery and deception. Deception of whom? Of Allah, Lord of the worlds, who knows the treachery of the eyes and what the breasts conceal. This is the riba they used to practice in the pre-Islamic age of ignorance. When the debt came due, the creditor would say to the debtor: “Either you pay, or you increase it.” If he increased it and the time came again, he would increase it a second time, and a third time, and so on. This is what is referred to in the saying of Allah the Exalted:
(130) O you who have believed, do not consume usury, doubled and multiplied, but fear Allah that you may be successful. (131) And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers. (132) And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy.
يَاأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءامَنُوا لا تَأْكُلُوا الرِّبَا أَضْعَافًا مُضَاعَفَةً وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ * وَاتَّقُوا النَّارَ الَّتِي أُعِدَّتْ لِلْكَافِرِينَ * وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : This makes it appear that his transaction is sound, because it is a sale and purchase of this qatm of cardamom. In reality, it is the very essence of riba, but he is using a stratagem to circumvent it. The one who uses stratagems to circumvent the prohibitions of Allah is more sinful than the one who commits them openly.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Because it combines the harm of this prohibition with the harm of deceiving Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He. This is mocking Allah and challenging Him. For this reason, Ayub al-Sakhtiyani (may Allah have mercy on him) said about these people who use stratagems: “They deceive Allah as they deceive children. If they had done the matter in its proper form, it would have been easier.”
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : These deceivers regarding riba, in the form mentioned by the brother Abd al-Rahman or in other forms, cannot be turned away from what they are doing because they believe that what they are doing is sound. The one who believes that what he is doing is sound cannot be turned away from it. They say, as the hypocrites say:
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لا تُفْسِدُوا فِي الأَرْضِ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Some students of knowledge think that this issue is the issue of tawarruq, about which the scholars differed and the jurists permitted it in the well-known position of the school of Imam Ahmad. However, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah forbids it and is certain of its prohibition. Refer to that for details. But I refuse to accept anything other than that it is forbidden, meaning the issue of tawarruq.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : But this issue is not like the issue of tawarruq, and it cannot be compared to it, because it is explicit riba. The issue of tawarruq, as the jurists described it, is that a man needs dirhams, so he buys a commodity from a person for one hundred, paying one hundred and twenty, for example, on a deferred basis. Then he takes it, disposes of it, and meets his need with its value. As for this, they explicitly agreed on murabahah before this formal contract that is not intended. There is a difference between the two. For this reason, when Shaykh al-Islam mentioned the issue of tawarruq, he mentioned two opinions from the scholars. But when he mentioned this form, where a person agrees with another to give him ten dirhams for thirteen, or eleven, or something similar, he said: “This is riba without doubt.” He did not report any disagreement in it. This indicates the difference between the two issues.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : What the brother Abd al-Rahman mentioned is even greater than what I said, because it is explicit that he is forcing this distressed person into riba, even though Allah says:
And if someone is in hardship, then [let there be] postponement until [a time of] ease
وَإِنْ كَانَ ذُو عُسْرَةٍ فَنَظِرَةٌ إِلَى مَيْسَرَةٍThe questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : In any case, my advice to my brother merchants is to abandon this transaction and turn to what Allah has permitted for them from types of trade, such as mudarabah and musharakah, and others, so that they may leave the world in peace. Let them not burden themselves with the fire of these dirhams and their loss, and let the fruits and profits of them belong to others.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : The brother Abd al-Rahman al-Sayf from Buraydah.