Is Imam Ahmad’s weakening of some narrators who held to the createdness of the Qur’an a matter of precision rather than a warning?
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Abu Malik: ... So is his statement intended only as a warning? When he weakens one of those who say the Qur’an is created?
The Shaykh: Excuse me, what are you trying to say? Because I went and my mind drifted to something else.
Abu Malik: I am saying that Imam Ahmad, he mentions that Imam Ahmad.
The Shaykh: Yes, yes, but what do you want to add to it, exactly?
Abu Malik: I want to say, is this truly Imam Ahmad’s opinion in this specific issue of weakening and authenticating?
The Shaykh: Yes, I do not see what you mean. Mention what is being corrected?
Abu Malik: I mean, he says that Imam Ahmad’s weakening of some narrators who said the Qur’an is created is not a rejection of the hadith, not a rejection of the narration, but only a warning.
The Shaykh: Now the intent of your statement is clear.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: Of course not. He weakens it, so he qualifies Imam Ahmad’s statement to align with his own viewpoint.
Abu Malik: His own viewpoint? This is strange and astonishing. This is a deviation and a trial in the religion, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Yes, that is the problem.
Abu Malik: Truly ... .
The Shaykh: He can say that Ahmad’s opinion is such, but the opinion of others is such, and I am with those others.
Abu Malik: That is it.
The Shaykh: But interpreting the words of the scholars, he does this in many places.
Abu Malik: I seek refuge in Allah!
The Shaykh: For example, from what I have heard: he mentions Ibn ‘Adi or al-Uqayli, he says, about Ibn ‘Adi, I just remembered, he says about ‘Abd al-Razzaq, the author of "al-Musannaf," that he is truthful. He says, it is inconceivable that ‘Abd al-Razzaq, an imam and author, etc., is inconceivable. Ibn ‘Adi only says about him that he is truthful. So he imagines Ibn ‘Adi as if he lived in his time, and gathered all the opinions from here and there from the imams and the memorizers, and then formed an opinion from the aggregate of opinions. Whereas Ibn ‘Adi is an imam, meaning he gives his own opinion without relying on the efforts of others as we do. So he reached the point where these people say about ‘Abd al-Razzaq that he is truthful.
Abu Malik: This is a quality by which he is praised, and that is the end of it.
The Shaykh: And so he keeps interpreting his words with an interpretation that makes a person doubt whether to accept the words of the imams.
Abu Malik: Terrible.
The Shaykh: Yes.
Abu Malik: Something strange.
The Shaykh: This is the man’s opinion...
...
The questioner: ... This person is accused of Rafidah... He may speak about the people of the Sunnah and hadith, or he may speak specifically about the Nasibah when... in the text...
...
The Shaykh: That he is truthful, even though they are trustworthy. You have qualities that you possess, he does not have "truthful."
The questioner: Or attention is drawn to them in the discussion of narrators described as innovators.
...
The Shaykh: He does not listen to the question.
The questioner: This is present in him, truly.
The Shaykh: Ha, now you are hearing the answer but not benefiting from it; because you did not hear the question.
Another questioner : ... .
Another questioner: ... The book of Sahih, meaning this.
...
The Shaykh: More than fiqh.
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner: And on the first part of...
...
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: But as a cause for the refutation, the weakening.
...
Abu Malik: Other than the Companions.
...
The Shaykh: His statement is only correct if it was from ‘Ali ibn al-Madini that this man who has the hadith of the ‘Eid prayer was explicitly stated to be unknown, and yet he said: This is a sound hadith. Then his statement would be sound. But what is he doing? He is fabricating; So-and-so said about him: This is unknown, and so-and-so said about him: Unknown, but ‘Ali ibn al-Madini authenticated the hadith. So ‘Ali ibn al-Madini authenticates the hadiths of the unknowns! This is fabrication.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: This is a problem, Glory be to Allah!
Abu Malik: ... This is a calamity. It is forbidden for this man to take the front seat in teaching this knowledge. It is forbidden. This is a disaster, by Allah.
The Shaykh: Then he comes and says to the attendees, and there is not one among them who is not ignorant of hadith like him or more than him; he says: Before anything else, look at the text, not the chain!
Abu Malik: Authentication and weakening are based on the chain. There is no power nor strength except with Allah... How can the chain be straight? "And can the shadow be straight while the stick is bent?!" The truth is, the chain is the stick, the stick of the...
Another questioner : ... .
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: "If it were not for the chain, whoever wished would say what he wished."
Abu Malik: The chain is the religion.
The Shaykh: The chain is part of the religion.
Abu Malik: By Allah, this is forbidden. This is forbidden.
...
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ... al-Tirmidhi ... authenticates the unknowns.
Abu Malik: The unknowns?! I seek refuge in Allah!
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: Also - likewise - before him, al-Bukhari ... the Sahih ...
Another questioner: Even in al-Bukhari too!
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ...
The Shaykh: The problem of fabrication here is like the fabrication in fiqh, he brings in delusions.
The questioner: There is humiliation and yet.
The Shaykh: No, fabrication, fabrication.
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ... The narrator, the narrator of the hadith, the narrator from Jabir.
The Shaykh: Why did he say that? He said: Because he looked at the chain and found it objectionable, even though it is Ibn Khuzaymah’s habit in his Sahih to say: I am free from the responsibility of this narrator; because I do not know him to be just. So he rejects the hadith due to the narrator’s unknown status. What is this Abdullah bringing up? Why did he reject the hadith? Because he looked at the text.
Abu Malik: We seek refuge in Allah!
The Shaykh: Okay, if we said to him: What if, for example, he was authenticated, but there was weakness in his memory, and his hadith was good; would he reject it on the basis of the text? He might say: Yes, we will move to the trustworthy, memorizing, precise imam. Would his hadith be rejected on the basis of the text? Meaning a man who is lax...
Abu Malik: Yes, by Allah.
The Shaykh: And the calamity is that he is giving lessons.
Abu Malik: He is giving lessons.
The Shaykh : ... .
Abu Malik: Yes, and people are pleased with him, and I think - our Shaykh - that this is also being promoted now through some of the shaykhs; so that it can be said that, meaning, he has appeared.
The Shaykh: We have, meaning, scholars in hadith.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: Scholars in hadith.
Abu Malik: Yes, so this is what is being pointed to, and perhaps the youth are being directed...
The Shaykh: Excuse me, what are you trying to say? Because I went and my mind drifted to something else.
Abu Malik: I am saying that Imam Ahmad, he mentions that Imam Ahmad.
The Shaykh: Yes, yes, but what do you want to add to it, exactly?
Abu Malik: I want to say, is this truly Imam Ahmad’s opinion in this specific issue of weakening and authenticating?
The Shaykh: Yes, I do not see what you mean. Mention what is being corrected?
Abu Malik: I mean, he says that Imam Ahmad’s weakening of some narrators who said the Qur’an is created is not a rejection of the hadith, not a rejection of the narration, but only a warning.
The Shaykh: Now the intent of your statement is clear.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: Of course not. He weakens it, so he qualifies Imam Ahmad’s statement to align with his own viewpoint.
Abu Malik: His own viewpoint? This is strange and astonishing. This is a deviation and a trial in the religion, O Shaykh.
The Shaykh: Yes, that is the problem.
Abu Malik: Truly ... .
The Shaykh: He can say that Ahmad’s opinion is such, but the opinion of others is such, and I am with those others.
Abu Malik: That is it.
The Shaykh: But interpreting the words of the scholars, he does this in many places.
Abu Malik: I seek refuge in Allah!
The Shaykh: For example, from what I have heard: he mentions Ibn ‘Adi or al-Uqayli, he says, about Ibn ‘Adi, I just remembered, he says about ‘Abd al-Razzaq, the author of "al-Musannaf," that he is truthful. He says, it is inconceivable that ‘Abd al-Razzaq, an imam and author, etc., is inconceivable. Ibn ‘Adi only says about him that he is truthful. So he imagines Ibn ‘Adi as if he lived in his time, and gathered all the opinions from here and there from the imams and the memorizers, and then formed an opinion from the aggregate of opinions. Whereas Ibn ‘Adi is an imam, meaning he gives his own opinion without relying on the efforts of others as we do. So he reached the point where these people say about ‘Abd al-Razzaq that he is truthful.
Abu Malik: This is a quality by which he is praised, and that is the end of it.
The Shaykh: And so he keeps interpreting his words with an interpretation that makes a person doubt whether to accept the words of the imams.
Abu Malik: Terrible.
The Shaykh: Yes.
Abu Malik: Something strange.
The Shaykh: This is the man’s opinion...
...
The questioner: ... This person is accused of Rafidah... He may speak about the people of the Sunnah and hadith, or he may speak specifically about the Nasibah when... in the text...
...
The Shaykh: That he is truthful, even though they are trustworthy. You have qualities that you possess, he does not have "truthful."
The questioner: Or attention is drawn to them in the discussion of narrators described as innovators.
...
The Shaykh: He does not listen to the question.
The questioner: This is present in him, truly.
The Shaykh: Ha, now you are hearing the answer but not benefiting from it; because you did not hear the question.
Another questioner : ... .
Another questioner: ... The book of Sahih, meaning this.
...
The Shaykh: More than fiqh.
The questioner: Yes.
Another questioner: And on the first part of...
...
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: But as a cause for the refutation, the weakening.
...
Abu Malik: Other than the Companions.
...
The Shaykh: His statement is only correct if it was from ‘Ali ibn al-Madini that this man who has the hadith of the ‘Eid prayer was explicitly stated to be unknown, and yet he said: This is a sound hadith. Then his statement would be sound. But what is he doing? He is fabricating; So-and-so said about him: This is unknown, and so-and-so said about him: Unknown, but ‘Ali ibn al-Madini authenticated the hadith. So ‘Ali ibn al-Madini authenticates the hadiths of the unknowns! This is fabrication.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: This is a problem, Glory be to Allah!
Abu Malik: ... This is a calamity. It is forbidden for this man to take the front seat in teaching this knowledge. It is forbidden. This is a disaster, by Allah.
The Shaykh: Then he comes and says to the attendees, and there is not one among them who is not ignorant of hadith like him or more than him; he says: Before anything else, look at the text, not the chain!
Abu Malik: Authentication and weakening are based on the chain. There is no power nor strength except with Allah... How can the chain be straight? "And can the shadow be straight while the stick is bent?!" The truth is, the chain is the stick, the stick of the...
Another questioner : ... .
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: "If it were not for the chain, whoever wished would say what he wished."
Abu Malik: The chain is the religion.
The Shaykh: The chain is part of the religion.
Abu Malik: By Allah, this is forbidden. This is forbidden.
...
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ... al-Tirmidhi ... authenticates the unknowns.
Abu Malik: The unknowns?! I seek refuge in Allah!
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: Also - likewise - before him, al-Bukhari ... the Sahih ...
Another questioner: Even in al-Bukhari too!
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ...
The Shaykh: The problem of fabrication here is like the fabrication in fiqh, he brings in delusions.
The questioner: There is humiliation and yet.
The Shaykh: No, fabrication, fabrication.
Abdullah al-Sa’d - Cassette tape: ... The narrator, the narrator of the hadith, the narrator from Jabir.
The Shaykh: Why did he say that? He said: Because he looked at the chain and found it objectionable, even though it is Ibn Khuzaymah’s habit in his Sahih to say: I am free from the responsibility of this narrator; because I do not know him to be just. So he rejects the hadith due to the narrator’s unknown status. What is this Abdullah bringing up? Why did he reject the hadith? Because he looked at the text.
Abu Malik: We seek refuge in Allah!
The Shaykh: Okay, if we said to him: What if, for example, he was authenticated, but there was weakness in his memory, and his hadith was good; would he reject it on the basis of the text? He might say: Yes, we will move to the trustworthy, memorizing, precise imam. Would his hadith be rejected on the basis of the text? Meaning a man who is lax...
Abu Malik: Yes, by Allah.
The Shaykh: And the calamity is that he is giving lessons.
Abu Malik: He is giving lessons.
The Shaykh : ... .
Abu Malik: Yes, and people are pleased with him, and I think - our Shaykh - that this is also being promoted now through some of the shaykhs; so that it can be said that, meaning, he has appeared.
The Shaykh: We have, meaning, scholars in hadith.
Abu Malik: Yes, that is right.
The Shaykh: Scholars in hadith.
Abu Malik: Yes, so this is what is being pointed to, and perhaps the youth are being directed...
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.