What is the ruling on a savings club?
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The questioner : Okay, we want to know the ruling on a savings club, which is collecting a sum of money from each member at the end of every month to be paid to one of the members of this club?
The Shaykh : If the intention behind this collection is for some to help others without equal benefit for all parties, there is no harm in that; it falls under the category of cooperation in good. However, if it is in the nature of exchange, where for example one person takes the total in the first month—let us assume, for instance, one hundred dinars—and the second person takes it in the second month, and the third in the third month, and so on, then it may come to the turn of one of them who does not receive his due, or one of them receives his due and leaves, even though he had paid, for example, ten but received one hundred. This falls under riba (usury or interest). But if the gathering is based on the principle of cooperation, then yes, the work is good; yes, the work is good.
The questioner : I mean, in terms of the turn, everyone eventually receives one hundred, one hundred, one hundred.
The Shaykh : No, that is not what I mean. I mean, if one person takes his share and the other does not take his, what the first one took is considered assistance to him, and he does not regret what he did, because this club was formed for the sake of cooperation in good, not on the basis that everyone takes the same share. Because in that case, one might violate this condition, as I gave you an example: a man paid ten in the first month, then took one hundred at the end of the month, then traveled and was absent and did not return to participate in the club. By what right did he take the one hundred? Is that clear?
The questioner : It is clear, but I mean, the process, if one takes, the intention is that in the club everyone is present and everyone needs this club.
The Shaykh : My brother, that is exactly it. But a person may get sick, die, travel, and so on. So, if this club was not established with consideration for what may happen to some of its members that would lead them to refrain from continuing their participation, such that in the end every member receives the same as the other.
The questioner : Yes, the 'illah (operative cause) is that if each of them takes the same as the other, is there an 'illah (operative cause) in that?
The Shaykh : The 'illah (operative cause) of permissibility has two aspects: either stability in participation so that each person takes what the others took, and this cannot be achieved. Therefore, there must be an agreement on leniency.
The questioner : I mean, if there is a principle of leniency in it.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Yes, okay, if it happens that everyone takes the same as the first one took.
The Shaykh : There is no power or strength except in Allah. My brother, we will tell you that this cannot be guaranteed.
The questioner : Ah, but if it happens, there is nothing wrong.
The Shaykh : Are we now going to speak on the basis of "if," or on the basis of "leave what makes you doubt for what does not make you doubt," and on the basis of his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):Bulugh al-Maram 16:32 ? If you are speaking about what has already happened, then if it happened and everyone took their share and the club ended, there is nothing wrong with it. But the question is usually not for the sake of what has happened, but for the sake of what may happen.
The questioner : What happens, yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, that is it.
The questioner : May Allah bless you. Because, as a teacher regarding this matter, I asked this question because one of the young men conveyed to you this matter, saying that if a loan brings benefit, it is riba (usury or interest). I am just wondering, though.
The Shaykh : No, this is a partnership; it has no relation to a loan.
The questioner : I mean, it is not... did you not say that?
The Shaykh: No, no.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. We said...
The questioner : I took up too much of your time on this issue because I said I am afraid the Shaykh is speaking.
The Shaykh : The important thing now is that I understood you well.
The questioner : May Allah bless you. Yes.
The Shaykh : And may Allah reward you, and peace be upon you.
The Shaykh: Peace be upon you.
The questioner : We want another question.
The Shaykh : What is your need now?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : That is enough for now. Let the turn go to someone else.
The questioner : I want a hadith quickly, teacher.
The Shaykh : There is no power or strength... go ahead.
The Shaykh : If the intention behind this collection is for some to help others without equal benefit for all parties, there is no harm in that; it falls under the category of cooperation in good. However, if it is in the nature of exchange, where for example one person takes the total in the first month—let us assume, for instance, one hundred dinars—and the second person takes it in the second month, and the third in the third month, and so on, then it may come to the turn of one of them who does not receive his due, or one of them receives his due and leaves, even though he had paid, for example, ten but received one hundred. This falls under riba (usury or interest). But if the gathering is based on the principle of cooperation, then yes, the work is good; yes, the work is good.
The questioner : I mean, in terms of the turn, everyone eventually receives one hundred, one hundred, one hundred.
The Shaykh : No, that is not what I mean. I mean, if one person takes his share and the other does not take his, what the first one took is considered assistance to him, and he does not regret what he did, because this club was formed for the sake of cooperation in good, not on the basis that everyone takes the same share. Because in that case, one might violate this condition, as I gave you an example: a man paid ten in the first month, then took one hundred at the end of the month, then traveled and was absent and did not return to participate in the club. By what right did he take the one hundred? Is that clear?
The questioner : It is clear, but I mean, the process, if one takes, the intention is that in the club everyone is present and everyone needs this club.
The Shaykh : My brother, that is exactly it. But a person may get sick, die, travel, and so on. So, if this club was not established with consideration for what may happen to some of its members that would lead them to refrain from continuing their participation, such that in the end every member receives the same as the other.
The questioner : Yes, the 'illah (operative cause) is that if each of them takes the same as the other, is there an 'illah (operative cause) in that?
The Shaykh : The 'illah (operative cause) of permissibility has two aspects: either stability in participation so that each person takes what the others took, and this cannot be achieved. Therefore, there must be an agreement on leniency.
The questioner : I mean, if there is a principle of leniency in it.
The Shaykh: Yes.
The questioner : Yes, okay, if it happens that everyone takes the same as the first one took.
The Shaykh : There is no power or strength except in Allah. My brother, we will tell you that this cannot be guaranteed.
The questioner : Ah, but if it happens, there is nothing wrong.
The Shaykh : Are we now going to speak on the basis of "if," or on the basis of "leave what makes you doubt for what does not make you doubt," and on the basis of his saying (peace and blessings be upon him):
is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it
ومَن حامَ حولَ الحِمَى يوشك أن يقعَ فيهThe questioner : What happens, yes.
The Shaykh : Yes, that is it.
The questioner : May Allah bless you. Because, as a teacher regarding this matter, I asked this question because one of the young men conveyed to you this matter, saying that if a loan brings benefit, it is riba (usury or interest). I am just wondering, though.
The Shaykh : No, this is a partnership; it has no relation to a loan.
The questioner : I mean, it is not... did you not say that?
The Shaykh: No, no.
The questioner : May Allah reward you.
The Shaykh : May Allah bless you. We said...
The questioner : I took up too much of your time on this issue because I said I am afraid the Shaykh is speaking.
The Shaykh : The important thing now is that I understood you well.
The questioner : May Allah bless you. Yes.
The Shaykh : And may Allah reward you, and peace be upon you.
The Shaykh: Peace be upon you.
The questioner : We want another question.
The Shaykh : What is your need now?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : That is enough for now. Let the turn go to someone else.
The questioner : I want a hadith quickly, teacher.
The Shaykh : There is no power or strength... go ahead.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.