Discussion on dealing with Islamic banks.

The questioner : We met with Shaykh Khalid al-Sultan in a da'wah or... there, when they opened a financing house on the basis that it was Islamic, but it was not Islamic, and so on. I was the imam and khatib there, so we encouraged people to put their money in the financing house on the basis that they would say, "We are following Islam," not like, frankly, saying, "We deal in riba," and so on. Then violations appeared in this financing house in Kuwait, and people asked the scholars, and so on. You know, we asked about the Islamic bank here. When we left Kuwait, we took our fees and put the money on the basis of an Islamic bank.

The Shaykh : This is worse than that.

The questioner : I mean, worse, meaning is there anything in it that is halal transactions, or is it all?

The Shaykh : There are no halal transactions with any of the banks except through what is called the safe deposit box.

The questioner : This is how it works.

The Shaykh : The safe deposit box: large banks rent them to those who wish to lease them for an annual or monthly fee. This box has two keys: one key with the depositor and one key with the bank, such that this box cannot be opened by either party unless both parties and both keys are present.

The questioner : Is this available in the banks now?

The Shaykh : It is available, yes, yes.

The questioner: Good.

The Shaykh : Yes, but I do not know specifically if it is available in the bank called the Islamic bank or not. But my point is to say that there is no dealing with the bank except through this method: you lease a box, and instead of taking what they call interest, which is riba, you pay the rent for the box. And without a doubt, this box will be kept safer than anywhere else.

The questioner : The question, O honorable Shaykh, is that we are now convinced that the banks deal in forbidden transactions, but we want to invest.

The Shaykh : There is no way to invest except that the money is with you, or this box. Whenever you see that you need to withdraw money from it, you go and withdraw it with the key that is with you and the key that is with them. And this, in fact, from a commercial standpoint, does not facilitate trade. But not everything that facilitates trade is halal. So the Muslim does not follow the Zionist Jewish rule that says the end justifies the means. No, Islam says frankly, the Noble Qur'an: ; therefore, the one who wants to trade does not deal with the banks at all. There is no way to deal except if the Islamic bank is found, and the covenants and agreements have value with them, as is supposed to be the case in an Islamic society when it is truly an Islamic society. But where is the society today an Islamic society in name, but in practice it is not so.

The questioner : Well, O honorable Shaykh, this money, for this period, has become a sum of such-and-such with us. How should we spend this? We did not know that it was like what you mentioned, that there is nothing in it.

The Shaykh : Do you mean that you have made a profit from it?

The questioner: Of course.

The Shaykh : I mean, what they call, as we said, interest, they gave it to you.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : There is no way for you to benefit from it personally, or for anyone else personally, even if he is poor with extreme poverty. Rather, this money is spent as the jurists say, in public utilities.