Is a woman riding in a car with the driver considered seclusion?

The questioner : Peace be upon you, and Allah’s mercy and blessings.
O Shaykh, you mentioned in one of your sessions here.

The Shaykh : Raise your voice.

The questioner : You mentioned in one of your sessions here that there is no harm in leaving the driver with Muslim women.

The Shaykh : I do not hear you.

The questioner : You mentioned in one of your sessions here.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : That there is no objection to the driver taking women to shops within the city, unlike travel. We suffer from this problem; there are Zoroastrians, Buddhists, and Christians who do not belong to Islam. So how do we reconcile this with the hadith, the hadith mentioned by the Messenger of Allah—that a man should not go out, yes?—... that .

The Shaykh : Should he not go out, or should he not be in seclusion?

The questioner; so how do we reconcile your statement with the statement of the hadith? And is the hadith specific or general?

The Shaykh : You—may Allah bless you—mentioned the Christians in your speech, and then you mentioned the hadith: . Seclusion is forbidden whether the one in seclusion with the woman is a Muslim or a disbeliever. So why did you mention the Christian and omit mentioning the Muslim? Because if it is seclusion between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman, it is seclusion between a disbeliever and a Muslim woman. And if it is not seclusion between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman, it is not seclusion—either—between a Muslim woman and a disbeliever. Is this clear up to this point?
I mean, a woman riding in a car, and the car is open, and it moves through streets full of people; this is not seclusion. This room, for example, here a man and a non-mahram woman, and the door is open; this is not seclusion in the Shari'ah. And even if it is possible for some things to occur that may involve hinting, whispering, and hidden speech, and so on, but this is not seclusion. Seclusion is not established in the Shari'ah unless the place is covered, such that whoever is outside does not see what happens inside. So if we know that this is seclusion in the custom of the Shari'ah, then when a woman rides in a car within the city and the car is open, and it is not like some cars that are surrounded by metal rather than glass; then at that time, this is not seclusion. But even so, we say that the issue differs from country to country. If in some countries it is possible for some harms to occur from a woman riding alone with a driver, even if he is a Muslim; then this is prohibited by way of blocking the means to harm, and not because it is seclusion. You have known its meaning. And at that time, the statement comes that if the driver is a Christian, and it is feared that some harms may occur from a woman riding in the car with this man; then at that time, it is prohibited a fortiori by way of blocking the means to harm, and not because it is seclusion. Seclusion, as we defined it previously, is not established except by being in seclusion in a place where no one looks into it, overlooks it, or sees what happens in it.
Yes.