The Shaykh’s response to the critic’s claim that the “sects” in Hudhayfah’s hadith refer to the sects that call to misguidance, and not to the sects that

The student: Allow me a word regarding the aforementioned hadith of Hudhayfah.

The Shaykh: Yes.
The student: Before the hadith, which is the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), the hadith says: , he said: ; meaning, likewise, these are also... he said, if these callers at the gates of Hell are callers to misguidance, then in this case, one must avoid those sects who are callers at the gates of Hell.

The Shaykh: No.
The student : ... .

The Shaykh: No, no, no, what is there after the phrase .
The student : .

The Shaykh: What is after it?
The student: Before it... .

The Shaykh: No, no, after it.
The student: May Allah remind me... .

The Shaykh: I will bring you the authentic hadith as proof... my brother, after they guide by other than the guidance, or shall we read the whole hadith, that is better, please The reader: The people used to ask the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) about good, and I used to ask him about evil, fearing that it might overtake me. So I said: O Messenger of Allah, we were in ignorance and evil, then Allah brought us this good; is there any evil after this good? He said: نعم Yes. I said: Is there any good after that evil? He said: نعم ، وفيه دَخَن Yes, and in it is smoke. I said: What is its smoke? He said: قومٌ يهدون بغير هديي ، تعرف منهم وتنكر some people who will guide others not according to my tradition? You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of some others.Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: Is there any evil after that good? He said: نعم ، دعاةٌ على أبواب جهنم ، مَن أجابهم إليها قذفوه فيها Yes, (there will be) some people calling at the gates of the (Hell) Fire, and whoever will respond to their call, will be thrown by them into the (Hell) Fire.Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: O Messenger of Allah, describe them to us. He said: هم مِن جلدتنا ، ويتكلَّمون بألسنتنا They will be from our own people and will speak our language.Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: What do you order me to do if that overtakes me? He said: تلزم جماعة المسلمين وإمامهم Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler).Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: What if they have no community or imam? He said: فاعتزل تلك الفرقَ كلها ، ولو أن تعضَّ بأصل شجرة حتى يُدرِكَك الموت وأنت على ذلك Then turn away from all those sects even if you were to bite (eat) the roots of a tree till death overtakes you while you are in that state.Sahih al-Bukhari 7084.

The Shaykh: Please, go ahead now.
The student: Yes دعاةٌ على أبواب جهنم مَن أجابهم callers at the gates of Hell; whoever responds to themSunan Ibn Majah 3979.
The student: At the gates, my brother, read.
The student: على أبواب جهنم ، مَن أجابهم إليها قذفوه فيها at the gates of Hell; whoever responds to them they throw them into itSunan Ibn Majah 3979. I said: O Messenger of Allah, describe them to us. He said: هم مِن جلدتنا ، ويتكلَّمون بألسنتنا They will be from our own people and will speak our language.Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: What do you order me to do if that overtakes me? He said: تلزم جماعة المسلمين وإمامهم Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler).Sahih al-Bukhari 7084. I said: What if they have no community and no imam? He said: فاعتزل تلك الفرق كلها withdraw from all their groupsSunan Ibn Majah 3979, the sects, meaning they are the misguided sects, and this does not contradict the fact that there may be a community of good that calls to good, for this does not contradict joining their community, by the saying of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He): وَتَعَاوَنُوا عَلَى الْبِرِّ وَالتَّقْوَى cooperate in righteousness and piety[Al-Ma'idah 5:2], and this never contradicts leaving those communities, and Allah the Exalted knows best.

The Shaykh: Allah the Exalted knows best, you are correct, what is the meaning of Hudhayfah’s saying to the Messenger after those types of descriptions, the worst of which is دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979, when Hudhayfah said إذا أدركني ذلك If that overtakes me ذلك that, what does it mean, are they... from the trials, or a type of these trials.
The student: If we take... دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979.

The Shaykh: My dear, I am asking you a question, answer me.
The student: Excuse me, I did not.

The Shaykh: Excuse me, excuse me, I am asking and you answer.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: I am asking you now, this hadith says Hudhayfah: ما تأمرني إن أدركني ذلك ؟ What do you command me to do, if I live to see that?Sunan Ibn Majah 3979, this ذلك that is a demonstrative pronoun, where does it point to دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979, to the end, قلت فما تأمرني إن أدركني ذلك I said: “What do you command me to do, if I live to see that?”Sunan Ibn Majah 3979 ذلك that where does it reach?
The student: Up to دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979, this includes... .

The Shaykh : ... .
The student : Why?

The Shaykh: Because that is a demonstrative pronoun that encompasses all that preceded, meaning the good that has smoke, which is evil, then the pure evil, which is دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979, this is one thing. Second, Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, he said: فما تأمرني إن أدركني ذلك ؟ What do you command me to do, if I live to see that?Sunan Ibn Majah 3979 إن أدركني if that overtakes me, the good that has evil, do you see, and it has smoke, what do you order me to do if that overtakes me? He said: تلزم جماعة المسلمين وإمامهم Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler).Sahih al-Bukhari 7084, with what did he advise him? Be patient.
The student: Yes, yes, I understood you.

The Shaykh: ... found... no major benefit results from it, I recall now that ذلك that refers to what preceded, suppose it refers to the community, these are the closest, but notice with me when he asked, if these overtake, what does he do?
The student: He isolates himself.

The Shaykh: No, no, before the avoidance, he said to him: الزم إمام المسلمين وجماعتهم adhere to the imam of the Muslims and their congregation, so he returned and asked: What if they have no imam and no community? He said: اعتزل withdraw.
The student: All right.

The Shaykh: Wait, wait, wait, he said: فاعتزل تلك الفرق كلها withdraw from all their groupsSunan Ibn Majah 3979, here is it a sect or sects.
The student : There is no difference.

The Shaykh: Sects, the sects, this cannot be understood by referring the demonstrative pronoun to إن أدركني ذلك if that overtakes me only, no, even those before them تعرف منهم وتنكر you know them and you disavow them, تعرف وتنكر You know them and you deny them, it is known what the meaning of تعرف وتنكر You know them and you deny them is.
The student: Meaning, they know some things and deny some things.

The Shaykh: Yes, so it is a sect, and more misguided than it is the last sect, which are they دعاة على أبواب جهنم callers at the gates of HellSunan Ibn Majah 3979, so Hudhayfah said: What do you order me to do if that overtakes me? Meaning: all that preceded of types of trials. He said: فالزم جماعة المسلمين وإمامهم Adhere tothe main body of the Muslims and their leaderSunan Ibn Majah 3979. What if they have no community or no imam? فاعتزل تلك الفرق كلها withdraw from all their groupsSunan Ibn Majah 3979, اعتزل تلك الفرق كلها withdraw from all their groupsSunan Ibn Majah 3979.
The student : May we ask a question?

The Shaykh: No, you are not possible now.
The student: If Allah wills, it is fine.

The Shaykh: Because ... .
The student: The sects that I understand are not, meaning, the communities and sects that do not... the sects that are the misguided sects who follow a path other than the people of the Sunnah and the community, like, for example, the Khawarij and their like.

The Shaykh : ... .
The student: You did not answer my question, which is whether this contradicts that there is a community of callers to good with whom we adhere, by the saying of Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He): وَتَعَاوَنُوا عَلَى الْبِرِّ وَالتَّقْوَى cooperate in righteousness and piety[Al-Ma'idah 5:2], does this contradict that?

The Shaykh: Yes, it does not contradict.
The student: It does not contradict.

The Shaykh: It does not contradict.
The student: Ah, so we agree here.

The Shaykh: That is it, but you say you did not answer me.
The student: Yes, that is it, so we agree on it, but this is a foundation for you, the next is the brother Hasan, may Allah reward him with good, he came to you saying that you restricted jihad with two conditions, and we know... no hadith or proof... but he is discussing you on one matter, which is restricting jihad with the condition of education and purification, and the scope of the discussion was on this matter, on this condition, but I did not hear his call, what is your proof, and in many hadiths - for example - : أنك على الحقِّ ولو كنت على رأس جبل That you are upon the truth, even if you were on the top of a mountain, I do not memorize the hadith but I know the meaning.

The Shaykh: Are you giving a lecture now or discussing?
The student: No, no, I am discussing, if Allah wills.

The Shaykh: This is not the way of discussion.
The student: Go ahead.

The Shaykh: The way of discussion is that we finish understanding this hadith.
The student: We agreed on something that this does not contradict that there is a community of good.

The Shaykh: First, we are those who referred to in the series of authentic hadiths under the title "The Victorious Group," and we mentioned hadiths we collected from the books of the Sunnah, so does it remain upon us that there must be individuals from the Muslims who are holding fast to the truth, my brother in Islam, as I said to your companion, our research now is not about individuals, our research is about communities, so you will be with the truth wherever it is, this is not a matter of research or difficulty, that it exists and is present, but the research here is when there are these trials and these sects, what did the Messenger order Hudhayfah to do? He ordered him to adhere to the imam of the Muslims and their community, correct?
The student: Correct, can I ask you a question?

The Shaykh: No, not possible?
The student: All right.

The Shaykh: ... upon him a question.
The student: When the brother finishes.

The Shaykh: When he finishes from the brother, I will direct a question to you, are you not telling me to ask? No, because I am keeping my role, youThe questioner : so here when he says to him: الزم إمام المسلمين وجماعتهم Hold fast to the Imam of the Muslims and their congregation. He said: What if they are not; with what did he advise him?
The student: That he should avoid, if they are not.

The Shaykh: Avoid, does the avoidance here mean that he belongs to one of the misguided sects and there is no community with an imam.
The student: The apparent meaning of the hadith is to avoid... .

The Shaykh: Ah, it has an inner meaning.
The student: Yes, there is another hadith that clarifies.

The Shaykh: Be patient, this is a good answer, and this is what I told the brother previously, if the hadith is not explicit in its indication, as the scholars of hadith say, then at least its apparent meaning indicates that if there is such a difference, the Muslim is ordered to adhere to the imam of the Muslims and their community, if they have no imam and no community, he avoids all those sects, this is the apparent meaning, I am saying with you now, following in the research, the apparent meaning is this, but I, in what I understand, this is a text with a decisive indication, there is not in those sects or communities one group with an imam, so he avoids all the sects, this is the apparent meaning, we are walking with you now within the limits of your expression, is there a text that contradicts this apparent meaning, and before I ask you this question.

The Shaykh: Allow me to tell you, is it permissible to contradict the apparent indication of a text without proof?
The student: No, we are here returning, of course... of course, the hadiths do not contradict, my... .

The Shaykh: The word "my dear," a word and it covered it.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: Is it permissible to contradict the apparent indication of a text in its meaning without proof?
The student: Allow me, we stop on this a little, meaning, if the expression.
The student: ... I will tell you, we say, if there is another hadith, there is an apparent meaning, then it is another thing, so the hadiths are not contradictory, it is necessary to reconcile here between the hadiths, so in hadiths there is.

The Shaykh: When you say it is necessary to reconcile.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: Meaning, there is a contradiction before we reconcile.
The student: No, far be it from Allah that there is a contradiction between the hadiths of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : Between what and what is the reconciliation?
The student : If, for example, there is an apparent contradiction in a hadith.

The Shaykh : Is this it? Is there a hadith that contradicts the apparent meaning of this hadith?
The student : Ah, in a hadith that conflicts with, not contradicts... لا تزال عصابة من أمَّتي ظاهرين على الحق A group of people from my Umma will always remain triumphant on the right pathSahih Muslim 1920.

The Shaykh : "Halaimah returned to her old habit," there is no power nor strength except by Allah!!
The student : Okay, that is possible.