The Shaykh’s discussion with one of the Azhar scholars regarding the affirmation of the attribute of elevation for Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He)

The Shaykh : It was said that when they denied that Allah rose above the Throne, here is another example related to our current intellectual and creedal life. When they denied that Allah is above the Throne, as He (the Exalted) explicitly stated: , why did they deny it? They said: Because if we say "istawa" (rose) means "istala" (exalted Himself), it means we have confined Him to a place, and Allah is free from being in a place. This, too, stems from the narrowness of their minds and thinking. The truth, as Ibn al-Qayyim also said following Ibn Taymiyyah, is that the Mu'tazilah and their like, when they engage in figurative interpretation (ta'wil) of the texts, their interpretation is preceded by their understanding of likening Allah to creation (tashbih). They understood that the Most Merciful "istawa" just as a Shaykh sits on his chair or a sultan on his throne, and He (Mighty and Majestic) should not be like that, right? If "istawa" did not mean "istala" (exalted Himself), the meaning of the interpretation is that the notion of likening (tashbih) came to their minds first. Otherwise, if they had not understood it as likening, they would not have had the need for interpretation. I am detailing this for you because of the necessity of the issue. They understood that the Creator is like the created, among other things, that if the chair were removed from a created being, he would fall on his head. Allah (Mighty and Majestic) said: ; so, when Allah "istawa," meaning He exalted Himself above the Throne, it is not like a human being. Therefore, in the words of some scholars on this specific point, there is a poem by a jurist who possessed knowledge, in which he said:
"And the Lord of the Throne is above the Throne, *** But without the time of settling and connection."
Meaning, He (the Exalted) said: , so He is free from the Throne in the sense of sitting on it. Indeed, He (Blessed and Exalted is He) has only the attribute of elevation. As I have said repeatedly and over and over, in a past season of Hajj, we met, or a man from the scholars of al-Azhar came to us, and a long conversation took place between me and him on this issue. Among the points, we said to him: Is it not true that Allah was and there was nothing with Him? He said: Yes. We said: This is a point of agreement between us; there is no disagreement between us, praise be to Allah. We said to him: Where was Allah when there was nothing with Him? Was He in a place? He said: No. I said: And this is... So, when Allah (Mighty and Majestic) created the creation after it was non-existent, did He enter into it... or did He remain free from His creation? He said: He remained free from His creation. We said: If He remained free from His creation, is He still not in a place, as we agreed upon just now? He said: Yes, He is not in a place. So, Allah is not in a place before creation and after creation. I said to him: Is place a thing of existence or non-existence? Is it imagined in the mind or does it have real existence? He said: It has real existence, a place... and so on. This was the first step toward agreement with him... I said: When Allah created the creation, did He remain as He was, free from the creation and not in a place? He said: Yes. We said: When Allah created the creation, reason now judges. Look... and the Shari'ah, of course, is the deciding factor. Reason says that either Allah (Mighty and Majestic), when He created the creation, is above the creation... or that He created His creation above His own essence... Do you deny this? Only the first option remains: that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above the created things. This superiority, which reason necessitates, is what Allah informed us of... , meaning: He exalted Himself. And from this is a verse we read and pass over casually without realizing that Allah (Mighty and Majestic)... that they believe in this attribute. He says (Blessed and Exalted is He): ; meaning, we believe when we fear Allah, either permanently and eternally, and this is from the attribute of the prophets and messengers, or sometimes... that he fears his Lord. He rose above the Throne. So, this verse is among the verses that affirm the superiority of Allah above His Throne and above all His creation. I said to the Shaykh: What is your opinion? Do you believe with me in this statement? He said: Yes. I said: Then where is the place you claim? Place is the nature of the created. Allah (Mighty and Majestic)... where there is no place and no time, because Allah now... Allah was and there was nothing with Him... He said: No. When we proceeded with him in the research, we reached points where we agreed, but he did not feel that we had affirmed a place for Allah... a place? I said to him: Then why do you accuse the Salafis, who affirm what Allah described Himself with, including the attribute of superiority and the attribute of elevation, of confining Him to a place? But the truth... those who denied this attribute of Allah, that He is above all His creations, are the ones who confined Him to a place. The proof for what I am saying... there is no difference between a scholar and an ignorant person in this; they are the ones who say Allah is present in every place... denying what came in the Book of Allah and in the hadith of the Messenger of Allah that Allah is not above the created things because He is above the created things, and there is no place in which He is, as we explained to you, because it was non-existent. Allah was and there was nothing with Him, absolutely. When He created the created things, with the creation of the created things, time came into existence and place came into existence. So, He did not settle in this place and did not settle in this time. Therefore, Allah is free from the created things, including time and including place. So, Allah is not in a place. This is the belief of the people of the Sunnah, or the Salafis, in explicit terms. As for the masses of people today, they say two phrases, both of which lead to the same misguidance. They say: Allah is present in every place, or Allah is present in all existence. Allah is present in every place; this is His place, and He... So, is Allah in all these places? This is the meaning of people's words: Allah is present in every place, in... in the bathrooms, in... and so on. "Place" is a generic term that includes a pure place and an impure place. So, when the one who says "Allah is present in every place" means He is in all these places, the pure and the impure, although it is not permissible for a Muslim to say that Allah is present in the pure places. It is not permissible to say this, because if we say Allah is present in the pure places, we have confined Him, whereas He is free from all His creation and is above all the heavens.