The Shaykh’s discussion with the man regarding the difference between a prophet and a messenger, along with the man’s claim that he has conveyed the message to creation, and the continuation of the discussion on the verse of the Smoke.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh : May I ask you a question regarding your previous answer that the prophets are infallible?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The messengers are not the prophets, and the prophets are not the messengers. Is that according to your understanding?
The questioner : This question?
The Shaykh : A humble question!
The questioner : ... The people to whom our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He, reveals the messages so that they may convey His messages, are of three categories, three forms, three types.
The Shaykh : What Allah willed.
The questioner : Either a messenger, or a prophet, or a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh : Correct. So, I asked you, is there a difference between a messenger and a prophet?
The questioner : What is this question of yours... You did not tell me what the difference is?
The Shaykh : ... Wait, may Allah reward you! You are saying this is not the question. I... This question is my question. Is there a difference between a prophet and a messenger, or is every messenger a prophet, or is every prophet a messenger? Do you understand my question?
The questioner : I understand your question, but the answer to it...
The Shaykh : There is no answer! Please, go ahead.
The questioner : ... The people to whom our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He... conveys His messages to the people, are of three forms, three types: either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together. And as for the difference between a prophet and a messenger, no one knows it except Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh : No one knows it except Allah. Do you know now? This answer condemns you and makes you aware of your error in this misguided claim of yours! Are you a messenger or a prophet?
The questioner : I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh : The messenger does not know the difference between a prophet and a messenger except Allah, and you have known the difference!
The questioner : I have known the difference. I have known that I am a messenger... I am not a prophet.
The Shaykh : If you have known that there is a messenger who is not a prophet, and a prophet who is not a messenger, then you have known the difference!
The questioner : This means that I have known the difference. The person sent by Allah, Glorified, is revealed to by Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, either as a messenger, or as a prophet, or as a messenger and a prophet, and they are the same in this regard. And only Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, knows what the difference is between a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh : You have known... Never mind, let me show you... Let us stop at the prophet. You are now a prophet!
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : A messenger.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, I was wrong.
The questioner : Of course, you were wrong.
The Shaykh : Certainly... You are a messenger, meaning?
The questioner : I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh : Good. Do I understand that you are infallible?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : The messenger! ... You told us that the messenger is infallible in conveying the message!
The questioner : In conveying the message, I said, infallible in conveying the message...
The Shaykh : I am asking now, are you infallible in conveying the message?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : What about the previous verse? You were not infallible in it!
The questioner : I am the Messenger of Allah, the Mahdi, the messenger of the end of time, a follower and not an innovator, such that...
The Shaykh : Why... Let us hear the answer...
The questioner : Never mind, do not interrupt me...
The Shaykh : ... In the question, how are you infallible and you make a mistake in reciting the Qur'an!! And you are a messenger.
The questioner : I am a follower and not an innovator, such that if I make a mistake in the emphasis of a word in a verse, I return, submissive and resigned, to the text of the verse and to the diacritical marks of the verse. But you, even though its meaning is clear, you argue and deviate from its meaning.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : Meaning, I made a mistake, I am ready to submit to this emphasis... This Qur'an was revealed to me to warn you with it, and whoever it reaches... I did not come with a new Qur'an... Conveying the text, our Lord, Glorified, preserved it and sent it down to our master Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and He did not allow any one of all the people that he... So this now... is something new. I am conveying something that exists, such that if I make a mistake, I return...
The Shaykh : But you did not convey it as it was sent down! So you did not fulfill the message and you did not convey the trust!
The questioner : I fulfilled it and conveyed it... Disbeliever...
The Shaykh : ... I am a disbeliever! What is there after...
The questioner : ... .
Another questioner: Did you understand the verse you quoted? You asked a question...
The questioner : ... Cursed... So an extra waw, a missing waw...
The Shaykh : Excuse me... I am asking you a question, I want... to benefit...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... .
Another questioner: ... Whatever was wrong... I take information... I benefit...
The Shaykh : Glory be to You, I was among the wrongdoers...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The miracle has not yet come, so you have no right to ask!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : It has not yet descended...
The questioner : From the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He has established... The verse of the Smoke... A subsidence in the Arabian Peninsula...
The Shaykh : Yes, I understood...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : O Allah, guide us among those You have guided.
Another questioner: The appearance of the Dajjal and the descent of 'Isa (peace be upon him), these are material matters that no person can say this is not, and these... prove who is... right and who is wrong...
Another questioner: I know them, and I am two years old... The Dajjal will appear and the Messiah will come, and so on, and all these things...
Another questioner: ... He must come... The Mahdi and his group... The true Mahdi in that time must descend upon me... He is the Dajjal, and he is the one-eyed Dajjal...
The questioner : No, our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He, says:[Ad-Dukhan 44:10-13].
The Shaykh : May I ask you a question... How can they...?
The questioner :[Ad-Dukhan 44:12]
The Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner : Those who believed out of fear of the verse, and not... those who will be in the time of the verse, do you understand you...
The Shaykh : No... I am telling you... Speak about what...
The questioner : It was not to come...
The Shaykh : My dear, reflect on the verse...
The questioner : Reflect on it again...
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : I am reflecting on it...
The Shaykh : When I say something, you say it... Small children, no, not you, not me...
The questioner : Okay...
The Shaykh : The verse... it has such and such, and so on. The pronoun "they" refers to whom?
The questioner : To the group that says:[Ad-Dukhan 44:12].
The Shaykh : Please read the verse?
The questioner : Give us a mushaf, if you please...
The Shaykh :[Ad-Dukhan 44:10] Ah.
The questioner : The sky has not yet come with a clear smoke.
The Shaykh : Did you read Sahih al-Bukhari, or is this one of the questions that does not deserve an answer?!
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : From one thing to another.
The Shaykh : Please, did you read Sahih al-Bukhari...
The questioner :[Ad-Dukhan 44:10-13] .
The Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner : Let me finish...[Ad-Dukhan 44:14].
The Shaykh : Who is it? All these questions are out of place...
The questioner :[Ad-Dukhan 44:15-16] True is Allah, the Mighty.
The Shaykh : This verse... True is Allah, the Mighty...
The questioner : Because it is true...
The Shaykh : From the Qur'an...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... Or are you a follower of the people... True is Allah, the Mighty... This has no basis in the Sunnah, as the messenger (peace be upon him) used to read... the Qur'an or a verse from the verses of the Qur'an, he did not follow it with his saying "True is Allah, the Mighty"... If you were truthful in your claim of being the Mahdi, and even in your claim of being a messenger from the sky, that you also... followed the way of the messenger and his method... Among the things is that no one reads ten verses of the Qur'an without following them with the noble verse "True is Allah, the Mighty." Allah has not sent down authority for this for the one who walks, but say these pronouns...
The questioner : Fine... whatever... good...
The Shaykh : How do you know that it is good!
The questioner : "True is Allah, the Mighty" is evil!
The Shaykh : Here...
The questioner : "True is Allah, the Mighty" is evil!
The Shaykh : Be patient, be patient, this is in... The question: Did he (peace be upon him) come with a complete or incomplete Shari'ah?
The questioner : ... He came with a complete Shari'ah...
The Shaykh : In it...
The questioner : Look at what follows...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The messengers are not the prophets, and the prophets are not the messengers. Is that according to your understanding?
The questioner : This question?
The Shaykh : A humble question!
The questioner : ... The people to whom our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He, reveals the messages so that they may convey His messages, are of three categories, three forms, three types.
The Shaykh : What Allah willed.
The questioner : Either a messenger, or a prophet, or a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh : Correct. So, I asked you, is there a difference between a messenger and a prophet?
The questioner : What is this question of yours... You did not tell me what the difference is?
The Shaykh : ... Wait, may Allah reward you! You are saying this is not the question. I... This question is my question. Is there a difference between a prophet and a messenger, or is every messenger a prophet, or is every prophet a messenger? Do you understand my question?
The questioner : I understand your question, but the answer to it...
The Shaykh : There is no answer! Please, go ahead.
The questioner : ... The people to whom our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He... conveys His messages to the people, are of three forms, three types: either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together. And as for the difference between a prophet and a messenger, no one knows it except Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh : No one knows it except Allah. Do you know now? This answer condemns you and makes you aware of your error in this misguided claim of yours! Are you a messenger or a prophet?
The questioner : I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh : The messenger does not know the difference between a prophet and a messenger except Allah, and you have known the difference!
The questioner : I have known the difference. I have known that I am a messenger... I am not a prophet.
The Shaykh : If you have known that there is a messenger who is not a prophet, and a prophet who is not a messenger, then you have known the difference!
The questioner : This means that I have known the difference. The person sent by Allah, Glorified, is revealed to by Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, either as a messenger, or as a prophet, or as a messenger and a prophet, and they are the same in this regard. And only Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, knows what the difference is between a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh : You have known... Never mind, let me show you... Let us stop at the prophet. You are now a prophet!
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : A messenger.
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : Excuse me, I was wrong.
The questioner : Of course, you were wrong.
The Shaykh : Certainly... You are a messenger, meaning?
The questioner : I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh : Good. Do I understand that you are infallible?
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : The messenger! ... You told us that the messenger is infallible in conveying the message!
The questioner : In conveying the message, I said, infallible in conveying the message...
The Shaykh : I am asking now, are you infallible in conveying the message?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : What about the previous verse? You were not infallible in it!
The questioner : I am the Messenger of Allah, the Mahdi, the messenger of the end of time, a follower and not an innovator, such that...
The Shaykh : Why... Let us hear the answer...
The questioner : Never mind, do not interrupt me...
The Shaykh : ... In the question, how are you infallible and you make a mistake in reciting the Qur'an!! And you are a messenger.
The questioner : I am a follower and not an innovator, such that if I make a mistake in the emphasis of a word in a verse, I return, submissive and resigned, to the text of the verse and to the diacritical marks of the verse. But you, even though its meaning is clear, you argue and deviate from its meaning.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : Meaning, I made a mistake, I am ready to submit to this emphasis... This Qur'an was revealed to me to warn you with it, and whoever it reaches... I did not come with a new Qur'an... Conveying the text, our Lord, Glorified, preserved it and sent it down to our master Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and He did not allow any one of all the people that he... So this now... is something new. I am conveying something that exists, such that if I make a mistake, I return...
The Shaykh : But you did not convey it as it was sent down! So you did not fulfill the message and you did not convey the trust!
The questioner : I fulfilled it and conveyed it... Disbeliever...
The Shaykh : ... I am a disbeliever! What is there after...
The questioner : ... .
Another questioner: Did you understand the verse you quoted? You asked a question...
The questioner : ... Cursed... So an extra waw, a missing waw...
The Shaykh : Excuse me... I am asking you a question, I want... to benefit...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... .
Another questioner: ... Whatever was wrong... I take information... I benefit...
The Shaykh : Glory be to You, I was among the wrongdoers...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : The miracle has not yet come, so you have no right to ask!
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : It has not yet descended...
The questioner : From the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He has established... The verse of the Smoke... A subsidence in the Arabian Peninsula...
The Shaykh : Yes, I understood...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : O Allah, guide us among those You have guided.
Another questioner: The appearance of the Dajjal and the descent of 'Isa (peace be upon him), these are material matters that no person can say this is not, and these... prove who is... right and who is wrong...
Another questioner: I know them, and I am two years old... The Dajjal will appear and the Messiah will come, and so on, and all these things...
Another questioner: ... He must come... The Mahdi and his group... The true Mahdi in that time must descend upon me... He is the Dajjal, and he is the one-eyed Dajjal...
The questioner : No, our Lord, Glorified and Exalted is He, says:
(10) Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (11) Covering the people; this is a painful torment. (12) [They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers." (13) How will there be for them a reminder [at that time]? And there had come to them a clear Messenger.
فارتقب يوم تأتي السماء بدخان مبين يغشى الناس هذا عذاب أليم ربنا اكشف عنا العذاب إنا مؤمنون أنى لهم الذكرى وقد جاءهم رسول مبينThe Shaykh : May I ask you a question... How can they...?
The questioner :
[They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers."
... ربنا اكشف عنا العذاب إنا مؤمنونThe Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner : Those who believed out of fear of the verse, and not... those who will be in the time of the verse, do you understand you...
The Shaykh : No... I am telling you... Speak about what...
The questioner : It was not to come...
The Shaykh : My dear, reflect on the verse...
The questioner : Reflect on it again...
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : I am reflecting on it...
The Shaykh : When I say something, you say it... Small children, no, not you, not me...
The questioner : Okay...
The Shaykh : The verse... it has such and such, and so on. The pronoun "they" refers to whom?
The questioner : To the group that says:
[They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers."
ربنا اكشف عنا العذاب إنا مؤمنونThe Shaykh : Please read the verse?
The questioner : Give us a mushaf, if you please...
The Shaykh :
the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke.
يوم تأتي السماء بدخان مبينThe questioner : The sky has not yet come with a clear smoke.
The Shaykh : Did you read Sahih al-Bukhari, or is this one of the questions that does not deserve an answer?!
The questioner : No.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : From one thing to another.
The Shaykh : Please, did you read Sahih al-Bukhari...
The questioner :
(10) Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (11) Covering the people; this is a painful torment. (12) [They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers." (13) How will there be for them a reminder [at that time]? And there had come to them a clear Messenger.
فارتقب يوم تأتي السماء بدخان مبين يغشى الناس هذا عذاب أليم ربنا اكشف عنا العذاب إنا مؤمنون أنى لهم الذكرى وقد جاءهم رسول مبينThe Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner : Let me finish...
Then they turned away from him and said, "[He was] taught [and is] a madman."
ثم تولوا عنه وقالوا معلم مجنون ...The Shaykh : Who is it? All these questions are out of place...
The questioner :
(15) Indeed, We will remove the torment for a little. Indeed, you [disbelievers] will return [to disbelief]. (16) The Day We will strike with the greatest assault, indeed, We will take retribution.
إنا كاشفوا العذاب قليلا إنكم عائدون يوم نبطش البطشة الكبرى إنا منتقمونThe Shaykh : This verse... True is Allah, the Mighty...
The questioner : Because it is true...
The Shaykh : From the Qur'an...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : ... Or are you a follower of the people... True is Allah, the Mighty... This has no basis in the Sunnah, as the messenger (peace be upon him) used to read... the Qur'an or a verse from the verses of the Qur'an, he did not follow it with his saying "True is Allah, the Mighty"... If you were truthful in your claim of being the Mahdi, and even in your claim of being a messenger from the sky, that you also... followed the way of the messenger and his method... Among the things is that no one reads ten verses of the Qur'an without following them with the noble verse "True is Allah, the Mighty." Allah has not sent down authority for this for the one who walks, but say these pronouns...
The questioner : Fine... whatever... good...
The Shaykh : How do you know that it is good!
The questioner : "True is Allah, the Mighty" is evil!
The Shaykh : Here...
The questioner : "True is Allah, the Mighty" is evil!
The Shaykh : Be patient, be patient, this is in... The question: Did he (peace be upon him) come with a complete or incomplete Shari'ah?
The questioner : ... He came with a complete Shari'ah...
The Shaykh : In it...
The questioner : Look at what follows...