The Shaykh’s discussion with the man regarding the difference between a prophet and a messenger, along with the man’s claim that he has conveyed the message to creation
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh: May I ask you a question about your previous answer; that the prophets are infallible.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: I want to understand: are the messengers different from the prophets, and the prophets different from the messengers, according to your understanding?
The questioner : This question?
The Shaykh: A humble question!
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The people to whom our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—reveals messages so that they may convey their messages are of three categories, three forms, three types.
The Shaykh : What Allah willed!
The questioner: Either a messenger, or a prophet, or a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh: Right, okay, I asked you: is there a difference between a messenger and a prophet?
The questioner: No, that is not your question; did you not ask me what the difference is between a messenger and a prophet?
The Shaykh: No...
The questioner: ... There is another question, but the types of people ... .
The Shaykh: ... May Allah bless you, you say: this is not the question, I ... this is a question, my question is: do you see a difference between a prophet and a messenger, or is every messenger a prophet and every prophet a messenger? Do you understand my question?
The questioner: I understand your question, but the answer to it ... .
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Go ahead.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The people to whom our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—requires the conveyance of His messages to the people are of three forms, three types: either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together; but as for the difference between a prophet and a messenger, no one knows it except Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh: No one knows it except Allah, do you understand now? This answer condemns you and makes you aware of the error in this shallow claim of yours; are you a messenger or a prophet?
The questioner: I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh: You say: no one knows the difference between a prophet and a messenger except Allah, and yet you know the difference!
The questioner: I know the difference? I know that I am a messenger.
The Shaykh: You are not a prophet.
The questioner: I am not a prophet, no.
The Shaykh: So you know that there is a messenger who is not a prophet, and a prophet who is not a messenger; so do you know there is a difference?
The questioner: Does this mean I know the difference?
The Shaykh: Of course.
The questioner: I did not elaborate.
The Shaykh: Of course.
The questioner: That the person sent by Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He—revealed to by Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He—is either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together.
The Shaykh : But you.
The questioner: But no one knows what the difference is between a prophet and a messenger except Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh: You know, let us not give it to you in a lump; let us stop at the prophet, you are a prophet now.
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Or were you a messenger?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Excuse me, I am wrong.
The questioner: Of course, you are wrong.
The Shaykh: Certainly, did you understand you are a messenger?
The questioner: I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh: Good, so do I understand that you are infallible?
The questioner: No, do not understand that I am infallible.
The Shaykh: Why? The messenger, the messenger did not give us, you told us just now that the messenger is infallible in conveying?
The questioner: In conveying.
The Shaykh: Good.
The questioner: In conveying, yes, infallible.
The Shaykh: I am asking now; are you infallible in conveying?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: And what about the previous verse where you were not infallible?
The questioner: I am the messenger of Allah, the Mahdi, the messenger of the end of time, I follow and I am not an innovator, such that.
The Shaykh: Why...
The questioner: Such that.
The Shaykh: Why should we listen?
The questioner : No problem.
The Shaykh: We want to hear the answer.
The questioner: I do not want to answer you in my style.
The Shaykh: Yes, okay.
... In the question, how are you infallible and you make mistakes in reciting the Qur'an? Are you not a messenger?!
The questioner: I follow and I am not an innovator, such that if I make a mistake in the emphasis of a word in a verse, I return submissive and obedient to the text of the verse and to the diacritics of the verse, but you, even though its meaning is clear, you argue and deviate from its meaning.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner: I mean, if I made a mistake in the emphasis, I am ready to submit to this emphasis ... so I am[Al-An'am 6:19], I did not bring a new Qur'an.
Another questioner: You are infallible, okay.
The Shaykh: ... Be patient.
The questioner: Conveying the text, our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—preserved it and revealed it to our master Muhammad—peace be upon him—and did not allow any person among all humanity to ... so now I am not conveying anything new, I am conveying something that exists, such that if I make a mistake, I return to the correct one.
The Shaykh: But you did not convey it as it was revealed; so you did not perform the message nor convey the trust!
The questioner: I performed and conveyed ... disbeliever.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Did I say disbeliever? What is left after ...?
The questioner : ... .
Another questioner: Did you understand the meaning of the verse that I mentioned when I asked the question of ... whether it was mispronounced or not, with an extra waw or a missing waw ... .
Another questioner: I, excuse me ... when I ask you a question that I benefit from now.
The questioner: I have no objection to you benefiting.
Another questioner: I believe ... how did you know about me? In my life I ... never made a mistake, whatever was a mistake ... how did you know about me? But I like to take information and I like that I benefit, how did you know about me? A person learns.
The Shaykh: Glory be to You, I was among the wrongdoers.
Another questioner: Every prophet had revelation descended with him, okay? ... .
The Shaykh: The miracle has not come yet, you have no right to this question!
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: The miracle has not come yet.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: But the miracle.
The questioner: ... from the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it proves my truth or its absence ... I mentioned from it the Verse of Smoke, I mentioned it from it.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Huh?
Another questioner: I did not hear.
The questioner: I mentioned from it the Verse of Smoke.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The Verse of Smoke, a subsidence in the Arabian Peninsula.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Yes, yes, I understood ... your question, I want to answer it, the multiplicity of the answer, I will give it to you.
The Shaykh: O Allah, guide us among those You have guided.
Another questioner: And the appearance of the Dajjal, and the descent of our master 'Isa—peace be upon him—these are material matters in which no person can say this is no and this ... proves who is the believer on the right path and who is on falsehood.
Another questioner: I have known it since I was two years old.
The questioner: And if you have known it since you were two years old?
Another questioner: ... They say that the Dajjal will come out and the Messiah will come and so on, meaning all these things are ... .
Another questioner: Yes, but when our master the Messiah is to descend.
The Shaykh: Or do you want to say that this is not proof that it happened ... .
The questioner: I mean, when our master the Messiah is to descend, he will come to join the Mahdi and his group, whoever the true Mahdi is in that time, he will descend upon him.
Another questioner: I mean the one-eyed Dajjal will descend.
The questioner: He is the Messiah the Dajjal.
Another questioner: The one-eyed Dajjal.
Another questioner: He is the Messiah the Dajjal, and he is the one-eyed Dajjal ... .
The questioner: No, our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—says:[Ad-Dukhan 44:10-13].
The Shaykh: May I ask a question? To whom does the pronoun refer?
The questioner: To the people who said:[Ad-Dukhan 44:12].
The Shaykh: Who is it?
The questioner: Those who believed out of fear of the verse.
The Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner: And not, those who will be in the time of the verse that you understood.
The Shaykh: No, he is telling you.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: He is speaking about those who were.
The questioner: It was not to come.
The Shaykh: The verse, my dear, reflect on the verse.
The questioner: I know the verse, I reflect on it, but I am careful with it, I re-reflect on it.
The Shaykh: Not arrogance ... [Everyone laughs!].
The questioner: I reflect on it, I am asking you ... in it; is it arrogance?
The Shaykh: Of course, when I tell you I ... you say: no, you; is it arrogance of small children, no offense, no you, no I ... [Everyone laughs!].
Another questioner: Let it be the arrogance of big children.
The Shaykh: The verse, there are no big children in it, there are men, there is knowledge, there is etiquette, and so on, to the end, to whom does the pronoun they refer? To whom was it?
The questioner: To the group that says:[Ad-Dukhan 44:12].
The Shaykh: Please read the verse,[Ad-Dukhan 44:10].
The questioner: Give us a mushaf if you please.
The Shaykh:[Ad-Dukhan 44:10], what?
The questioner: The sky has not yet come with a clear smoke.
The Shaykh: Did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"? Or is this one of the questions that does not deserve an answer?!
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"?
The questioner: No ... from one thing to another.
The Shaykh: Please, did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"? ... .
The questioner :[Ad-Dukhan 44:10-13] .
The Shaykh: Who is it?
The questioner: Let me finish if you please.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner :[Ad-Dukhan 44:14] .
The Shaykh: Who are they? All these questions are standing, you proceed with your reading.
The questioner:[Ad-Dukhan 44:15-16], true is the great Allah.
The Shaykh: This verse ... true is the great Allah?
The questioner: Because it is true.
The Shaykh: Why did I follow it with the Qur'an?
Another questioner: Conclude ... conclude the verse.
The Shaykh : ... You are the truth with you, meaning it has been a long time since you spoke! Are you a follower of people or a guide to people? People say things like this: "Truthful is Allah the Great..." and so on. You want to guide them, you want to direct them, but this has no basis in the Sunnah. When the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) would recite ten verses of the Qur'an or a verse from the verses of the Qur'an, he did not follow it by saying, "Truthful is Allah the Great." This is one of the matters where it is obligatory for you, if you are sincere in your claim of being a guide, and even in your claim of a message from the sky, to say to these people: Where are you, leaving the guidance of the Messenger and his method, and bringing in things, among which is that none of them recites ten verses of the Qur'an without following it with the noble verse: "Truthful is Allah the Great," when Allah has not sent down any authority for this! It is fine for the passerby, but tell me: To whom do these pronouns refer?
The questioner : ... It is fine... anything... good...
The Shaykh : How do you know that it is good?!
The questioner : Is "Truthful is Allah the Great" evil?
The Shaykh : Ah, here...
The questioner : Is "Truthful is Allah the Great" evil?
The Shaykh : Be patient, be patient, this... is a question for us. Did the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) come with a complete Shari'ah or an incomplete one?
The questioner : ... He came with a complete Shari'ah...
The Shaykh : ... in it...
The questioner : I want to see what comes after it? ...
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: I want to understand: are the messengers different from the prophets, and the prophets different from the messengers, according to your understanding?
The questioner : This question?
The Shaykh: A humble question!
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The people to whom our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—reveals messages so that they may convey their messages are of three categories, three forms, three types.
The Shaykh : What Allah willed!
The questioner: Either a messenger, or a prophet, or a prophet and a messenger.
The Shaykh: Right, okay, I asked you: is there a difference between a messenger and a prophet?
The questioner: No, that is not your question; did you not ask me what the difference is between a messenger and a prophet?
The Shaykh: No...
The questioner: ... There is another question, but the types of people ... .
The Shaykh: ... May Allah bless you, you say: this is not the question, I ... this is a question, my question is: do you see a difference between a prophet and a messenger, or is every messenger a prophet and every prophet a messenger? Do you understand my question?
The questioner: I understand your question, but the answer to it ... .
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Go ahead.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The people to whom our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—requires the conveyance of His messages to the people are of three forms, three types: either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together; but as for the difference between a prophet and a messenger, no one knows it except Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh: No one knows it except Allah, do you understand now? This answer condemns you and makes you aware of the error in this shallow claim of yours; are you a messenger or a prophet?
The questioner: I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh: You say: no one knows the difference between a prophet and a messenger except Allah, and yet you know the difference!
The questioner: I know the difference? I know that I am a messenger.
The Shaykh: You are not a prophet.
The questioner: I am not a prophet, no.
The Shaykh: So you know that there is a messenger who is not a prophet, and a prophet who is not a messenger; so do you know there is a difference?
The questioner: Does this mean I know the difference?
The Shaykh: Of course.
The questioner: I did not elaborate.
The Shaykh: Of course.
The questioner: That the person sent by Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He—revealed to by Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He—is either a messenger, or a prophet, or a messenger and a prophet together.
The Shaykh : But you.
The questioner: But no one knows what the difference is between a prophet and a messenger except Allah—Glorified and Exalted is He.
The Shaykh: You know, let us not give it to you in a lump; let us stop at the prophet, you are a prophet now.
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Or were you a messenger?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: Excuse me, I am wrong.
The questioner: Of course, you are wrong.
The Shaykh: Certainly, did you understand you are a messenger?
The questioner: I am a messenger and not a prophet.
The Shaykh: Good, so do I understand that you are infallible?
The questioner: No, do not understand that I am infallible.
The Shaykh: Why? The messenger, the messenger did not give us, you told us just now that the messenger is infallible in conveying?
The questioner: In conveying.
The Shaykh: Good.
The questioner: In conveying, yes, infallible.
The Shaykh: I am asking now; are you infallible in conveying?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh: All right.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: And what about the previous verse where you were not infallible?
The questioner: I am the messenger of Allah, the Mahdi, the messenger of the end of time, I follow and I am not an innovator, such that.
The Shaykh: Why...
The questioner: Such that.
The Shaykh: Why should we listen?
The questioner : No problem.
The Shaykh: We want to hear the answer.
The questioner: I do not want to answer you in my style.
The Shaykh: Yes, okay.
... In the question, how are you infallible and you make mistakes in reciting the Qur'an? Are you not a messenger?!
The questioner: I follow and I am not an innovator, such that if I make a mistake in the emphasis of a word in a verse, I return submissive and obedient to the text of the verse and to the diacritics of the verse, but you, even though its meaning is clear, you argue and deviate from its meaning.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner: I mean, if I made a mistake in the emphasis, I am ready to submit to this emphasis ... so I am
And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches.
وَأُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنُ لِأُنْذِرَكُمْ بِهِ وَمَنْ بَلَغَAnother questioner: You are infallible, okay.
The Shaykh: ... Be patient.
The questioner: Conveying the text, our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—preserved it and revealed it to our master Muhammad—peace be upon him—and did not allow any person among all humanity to ... so now I am not conveying anything new, I am conveying something that exists, such that if I make a mistake, I return to the correct one.
The Shaykh: But you did not convey it as it was revealed; so you did not perform the message nor convey the trust!
The questioner: I performed and conveyed ... disbeliever.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: Did I say disbeliever? What is left after ...?
The questioner : ... .
Another questioner: Did you understand the meaning of the verse that I mentioned when I asked the question of ... whether it was mispronounced or not, with an extra waw or a missing waw ... .
Another questioner: I, excuse me ... when I ask you a question that I benefit from now.
The questioner: I have no objection to you benefiting.
Another questioner: I believe ... how did you know about me? In my life I ... never made a mistake, whatever was a mistake ... how did you know about me? But I like to take information and I like that I benefit, how did you know about me? A person learns.
The Shaykh: Glory be to You, I was among the wrongdoers.
Another questioner: Every prophet had revelation descended with him, okay? ... .
The Shaykh: The miracle has not come yet, you have no right to this question!
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: The miracle has not come yet.
Another questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: But the miracle.
The questioner: ... from the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it proves my truth or its absence ... I mentioned from it the Verse of Smoke, I mentioned it from it.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Huh?
Another questioner: I did not hear.
The questioner: I mentioned from it the Verse of Smoke.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: The Verse of Smoke, a subsidence in the Arabian Peninsula.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner: Yes, yes, I understood ... your question, I want to answer it, the multiplicity of the answer, I will give it to you.
The Shaykh: O Allah, guide us among those You have guided.
Another questioner: And the appearance of the Dajjal, and the descent of our master 'Isa—peace be upon him—these are material matters in which no person can say this is no and this ... proves who is the believer on the right path and who is on falsehood.
Another questioner: I have known it since I was two years old.
The questioner: And if you have known it since you were two years old?
Another questioner: ... They say that the Dajjal will come out and the Messiah will come and so on, meaning all these things are ... .
Another questioner: Yes, but when our master the Messiah is to descend.
The Shaykh: Or do you want to say that this is not proof that it happened ... .
The questioner: I mean, when our master the Messiah is to descend, he will come to join the Mahdi and his group, whoever the true Mahdi is in that time, he will descend upon him.
Another questioner: I mean the one-eyed Dajjal will descend.
The questioner: He is the Messiah the Dajjal.
Another questioner: The one-eyed Dajjal.
Another questioner: He is the Messiah the Dajjal, and he is the one-eyed Dajjal ... .
The questioner: No, our Lord—Glorified and Exalted is He—says:
(10) Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (11) Covering the people; this is a painful torment. (12) [They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers." (13) How will there be for them a reminder [at that time]? And there had come to them a clear Messenger.
فَارْتَقِبْ يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاءُ بِدُخَانٍ مُبِينٍ * يَغْشَى النَّاسَ هَذَا عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ * رَبَّنَا اكْشِفْ عَنَّا الْعَذَابَ إِنَّا مُؤْمِنُونَ * أَنَّى لَهُمُ الذِّكْرَى وَقَدْ جَاءَهُمْ رَسُولٌ مُبِينٌThe Shaykh: May I ask a question?
How could they be reminded
أَنَّى لَهُمُThe questioner: To the people who said:
[They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers."
رَبَّنَا اكْشِفْ عَنَّا الْعَذَابَ إِنَّا مُؤْمِنُونَThe Shaykh: Who is it?
The questioner: Those who believed out of fear of the verse.
The Shaykh : Who are they?
The questioner: And not, those who will be in the time of the verse that you understood.
The Shaykh: No, he is telling you.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh: He is speaking about those who were.
The questioner: It was not to come.
The Shaykh: The verse, my dear, reflect on the verse.
The questioner: I know the verse, I reflect on it, but I am careful with it, I re-reflect on it.
The Shaykh: Not arrogance ... [Everyone laughs!].
The questioner: I reflect on it, I am asking you ... in it; is it arrogance?
The Shaykh: Of course, when I tell you I ... you say: no, you; is it arrogance of small children, no offense, no you, no I ... [Everyone laughs!].
Another questioner: Let it be the arrogance of big children.
The Shaykh: The verse, there are no big children in it, there are men, there is knowledge, there is etiquette, and so on, to the end, to whom does the pronoun they refer? To whom was it?
The questioner: To the group that says:
[They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers."
رَبَّنَا اكْشِفْ عَنَّا الْعَذَابَ إِنَّا مُؤْمِنُونَThe Shaykh: Please read the verse,
the Day when the sky
يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاءُThe questioner: Give us a mushaf if you please.
The Shaykh:
the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke.
يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاءُ بِدُخَانٍ مُبِينٍThe questioner: The sky has not yet come with a clear smoke.
The Shaykh: Did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"? Or is this one of the questions that does not deserve an answer?!
The questioner: No.
The Shaykh: Did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"?
The questioner: No ... from one thing to another.
The Shaykh: Please, did you read "Sahih al-Bukhari"? ... .
The questioner :
(10) Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. (11) Covering the people; this is a painful torment. (12) [They will say], "Our Lord, remove from us the torment; indeed, we are believers." (13) How will there be for them a reminder [at that time]? And there had come to them a clear Messenger.
فَارْتَقِبْ يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاءُ بِدُخَانٍ مُبِينٍ * يَغْشَى النَّاسَ هَذَا عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ * رَبَّنَا اكْشِفْ عَنَّا الْعَذَابَ إِنَّا مُؤْمِنُونَ * أَنَّى لَهُمُ الذِّكْرَى وَقَدْ جَاءَهُمْ رَسُولٌ مُبِينٌThe Shaykh: Who is it?
The questioner: Let me finish if you please.
The Shaykh : ... .
The questioner :
Then they turned away from him and said, "[He was] taught [and is] a madman."
ثُمَّ تَوَلَّوْا عَنْهُ وَقَالُوا مُعَلَّمٌ مَجْنُونٌThe Shaykh: Who are they? All these questions are standing, you proceed with your reading.
The questioner:
(15) Indeed, We will remove the torment for a little. Indeed, you [disbelievers] will return [to disbelief]. (16) The Day We will strike with the greatest assault, indeed, We will take retribution.
إِنَّا كَاشِفُو الْعَذَابِ قَلِيلًا إِنَّكُمْ عَائِدُونَ * يَوْمَ نَبْطِشُ الْبَطْشَةَ الْكُبْرَى إِنَّا مُنْتَقِمُونَThe Shaykh: This verse ... true is the great Allah?
The questioner: Because it is true.
The Shaykh: Why did I follow it with the Qur'an?
Another questioner: Conclude ... conclude the verse.
The Shaykh : ... You are the truth with you, meaning it has been a long time since you spoke! Are you a follower of people or a guide to people? People say things like this: "Truthful is Allah the Great..." and so on. You want to guide them, you want to direct them, but this has no basis in the Sunnah. When the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) would recite ten verses of the Qur'an or a verse from the verses of the Qur'an, he did not follow it by saying, "Truthful is Allah the Great." This is one of the matters where it is obligatory for you, if you are sincere in your claim of being a guide, and even in your claim of a message from the sky, to say to these people: Where are you, leaving the guidance of the Messenger and his method, and bringing in things, among which is that none of them recites ten verses of the Qur'an without following it with the noble verse: "Truthful is Allah the Great," when Allah has not sent down any authority for this! It is fine for the passerby, but tell me: To whom do these pronouns refer?
The questioner : ... It is fine... anything... good...
The Shaykh : How do you know that it is good?!
The questioner : Is "Truthful is Allah the Great" evil?
The Shaykh : Ah, here...
The questioner : Is "Truthful is Allah the Great" evil?
The Shaykh : Be patient, be patient, this... is a question for us. Did the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) come with a complete Shari'ah or an incomplete one?
The questioner : ... He came with a complete Shari'ah...
The Shaykh : ... in it...
The questioner : I want to see what comes after it? ...
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.