Is recitation in the loud prayers behind the imam abrogated?

The questioner : You mentioned in your book, "The Description of the Prophet's (peace and blessings be upon him) Prayer,"

The Shaykh : (Peace and blessings be upon him).

The questioner : that they used to recite al-Fatihah behind the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him).

The Shaykh : (Peace and blessings be upon him).

The questioner : Until the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) They said, "Yes, O Messenger of Allah"; this means quickly, and so on, until they were reciting behind him. He said, What?

The Shaykh :

The questioner And then I said that what was abrogated was this recitation, and the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), perhaps after the Fajr prayer, was leading them, so he said, ; after which Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said that we

The Shaykh : "so the people stopped."

The questioner : "So the people stopped reciting in what the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him and his family) recited aloud." Is this evidence of abrogation?

The Shaykh : And what does "so the people stopped" mean?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : What does "so the people stopped" mean? They stopped doing something they were doing.

The questioner : Was this the final command of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), meaning is this established in this hadith, or did Abu Hurayrah say it was abrogated?

The Shaykh : Now you are asking again if it is established?

The questioner : It is not "is it established," meaning you want to...

The Shaykh : No, I understood everything, just is this established?

The questioner : Does it establish abrogation?

The Shaykh : I am telling you that they used to recite before, so if it says "the people stopped," does that mean they left what they were doing?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : What would abrogation be other than this, or do you understand abrogation differently from this meaning?

The questioner : No, I understand this meaning, but I am asking if abrogation is established in what you mentioned in "The Description of the Prophet's (peace and blessings be upon him) Prayer"?

The Shaykh : My brother, you are asking me about something you put in a book. I do not know if abrogation is not established by this, so why did we claim it was abrogated? But you have a doubt, perhaps you can clarify it, as it is what drives you to question something...

The questioner : Perhaps I am not convinced that this is evidence of abrogation, or something like that. Perhaps you have an answer, for example?

The Shaykh : No, I have no answer other than this. What do you think? Is there another possibility, for example?

The questioner : I mean, is there any jurist or scholar who preceded you with this statement and said it was abrogated? Is there a statement that it was abrogated and this was the evidence, or something like that...?

The Shaykh : You, Professor, I think you are aware that there are three schools of thought on the issue of recitation behind the imam. Those who say, like the Hanafis, for example, that the follower does not recite behind the imam at all.

The questioner : And al-Shafi'i says...

The Shaykh : What do these people answer regarding the hadiths that contain Do they not see that this was at one time? And how does this refute the one who says there is no recitation behind the imam at all, neither in the quiet nor the loud prayers? Likewise, we move to the next level, those who distinguish between quiet and loud recitation, like Malik and Ahmad, and this is the correct view that one recites in the quiet prayers but not the loud ones. What do they say about the recitation of the Companions behind the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and the saying of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): ? If this is not abrogated, why do they contradict it? There is no way out except to say the hadith is not authentic, and no one says this. If the hadith is authentic, why do you not act upon it? This was for a period of time, and then it was left, as evidenced by the hadith of Abu Hurayrah This is a clear text of abrogation. This is exactly like...

The questioner : I mean, this is what I did not understand and this is what I believe, but I wanted to...

The Shaykh : Patience, patience, I have not finished speaking, may Allah bless you. I said this is like it, so where is the comparison? This is like the hadith of Ali Does this not indicate abrogation?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Well, that indicates abrogation a fortiori, because the people stopped reciting behind the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). Please go ahead.

Another questioner : Can it not be said, as is the established rule, that as long as there is a possibility of reconciliation, abrogation is not resorted to? "So the people stopped reciting" with the exception of al-Fatihah, by another text?

The Shaykh : Can we try, is it possible or not... let's see if it is possible.

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : This is your question, like your companion's question about reconciliation. This is recorded in the book. What should I say to the contrary, except...
Al-Halabi : His intention is an answer to this objection. His intention is, our Shaykh, as long as there is a possibility of reconciling the two texts, why do we say abrogation, and the possibility exists?

The questioner : Is the possibility sound?

The Shaykh : Hmm, let him clarify it first.
Al-Halabi : What is the possibility, meaning what is his intention.

The questioner : The possibility that I say "the people stopped reciting except al-Fatihah"?

The Shaykh : Where did the exception come from?

The questioner : From the text before it.

The Shaykh : And what is it?

The questioner : That it is

The Shaykh :

The questioner : .

The Shaykh : Yes, that is it. Well, what does this text give?

The questioner : It gives silence regarding all recitation...

The Shaykh : No, no What does it mean that reciting al-Fatihah is obligatory so that we exclude it from the stopping... Yes, Murad, think well?

The questioner : Professor... regarding the obligation, do not do it except with al-Fatihah?

The Shaykh : No, this does not prove obligation, as evidenced by the fact that a prohibition after a command does not prove obligation. Is that correct or not? It is like what they say in our region in Syria, some of your forgotten things - (laughs)The Shaykh : May Allah have mercy on him.

The questioner : Well, Shaykh, may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : No, we are not finished, my Shaykh, may Allah bless you. No problem, say it, say what you have - (laughs)The Shaykh : (may Allah have mercy on him) -

Another questioner : No, my teacher, the brothersThe Shaykh : on

The Shaykh : If an Arab speaker said to you, like your story, "Do not sleep during the day except for the midday nap," what do you understand? That sleeping during the midday nap is obligatory?

The questioner : No, no, I understand permissibility.

The Shaykh : What do you understand?

The questioner : I understand permissibility.

The Shaykh : And what is the difference between this and that?

The questioner: It is the same thing.

The Shaykh : The same thing, and more than this, the famous text in indicating the lack of obligation One of you I mean, no problem if he recites

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Ah, so if this is with us, and the strength of the exception you were rushing to, to help you with the claimed exception from the statement of Abu Hurayrah , especially since this conclusion is the result of removing the confusion in the recitation upon him, and the confusion exists whether it is with al-Fatihah or without al-Fatihah. There is nothing in the Shari'ah that resembles the claim of the obligation of reciting al-Fatihah while the follower is listening to the imam's recitation; that is strange to the general principles of the Shari'ah. Reciting al-Fatihah, as is well known, is a pillar of the prayer. The imam must recite it in every rak'ah, whether secretly or aloud. If a person cannot memorize a verse or a surah similar in length and number of verses to al-Fatihah except by repetition, he memorizes al-Fatihah; but as for the others, he does not memorize them unless he repeats them or more. Correct? So what do we expect to be repeated from the recitation of the Qur'an, is it al-Fatihah or what comes after al-Fatihah? What is repeated more? Al-Fatihah, without a doubt. It is not reasonable at all, at the time of the imam's recitation after he has finished reciting al-Fatihah, where the people should be free to listen to what the imam recites after al-Fatihah so that perhaps they may memorize it, for it to be said to him: turn away from listening and turn away from hearing and occupy yourself with reciting al-Fatihah. I wonder how the Companions knew, if they were always and forever reciting al-Fatihah after the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) finished reciting it, how did they understand that he had recited and the like of the short surahs and the longer ones, while they were occupied with reciting what? Al-Fatihah. Now it is said to the follower: when the imam finishes reciting al-Fatihah, you start reciting it and do not listen to the verse or the two or three verses, especially in the last times, now, so that if you are asked what the imam recited after al-Fatihah in the first or second rak'ah, he says: by Allah, I do not know, I was occupied with reciting al-Fatihah, or he recites al-Fatihah and his recitation and his leaving it are the same; because is it like this poetry, as it came in some narrations? There is no such contradictory and conflicting commands in the Shari'ah: recite and listen. How can they be combined? Therefore, in the Qur'an, there are two commands in the previous verse... And so many of those sitting in the Friday sermon who carry the misbahah and are counting and glorifying while they are listening to the khatib's sermon, they do not understand anything or remember anything. One of the two: if his mind is with his dhikr and tasbih, then his mind is not with the khatib's sermon; and if the opposite, his mind is with the khatib's sermon, then his mind is not with the dhikr he is displaying before people. So how does it come in the Shari'ah that at the time of the obligation of listening and being silent and learning what is recited of the Qur'an after al-Fatihah, and he is most in need of learning such a thing that is recited in this case, he is told: recite al-Fatihah? This never meets the principles and rules of the Shari'ah. Please.

The questioner : So what some argue with from his (peace and blessings be upon him) statement: The intended meaning, or their intended meaning from it, is the state of loud recitation. His statement means...?

The Shaykh : Correct, and this hadith is also specified by another issue, and this specification specifies the other, which suggests arguing with the generality of the hadith. It is said, for example, in the verse: except al-Fatihah. Two generalities have contradicted each other. In that case, we apply the known rule: "The general that is specified is specified by the general that is not specified." So what did we say about the verse?

The questioner :

The Shaykh : It is the one that specifies the hadith , meaning if the one who recites al-Fatihah does so aloud, then listen and be silent, and not if he recites aloud, then recite al-Fatihah; because al-Fatihah is specified first by what I mentioned, and second by what I am mentioning now, which is: whoever comes and the imam is bowing and joins the imam in bowing, he has caught the rak'ah. What did this one who caught the rak'ah do with the statement "There is no prayer for one who has not recited"? He specified it too. So the implication of the hadith is not in its absolute, comprehensive, and general sense. It is said briefly: There is no prayer for one who has not recited al-Fatihah, except for one who is behind the imam and hears the recitation of al-Fatihah, then his prayer is valid. And otherwise, if one comes and finds the imam bowing and catches the bowing with him, he has a prayer even if he has not recited al-Fatihah.

The questioner : In a correct narration, they were pleased , in it ?

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.