Discussion on the issue of placing the hands after rising from bowing.

The questioner : Placing the hand on the chest in... in detail, it is established that the righteous predecessors did not specify anything regarding placing the hand on the chest or not, despite Imam Ahmad saying, "In my view, it is the same whether one does this or that"?

The Shaykh : Imam Ahmad did not say that.

The questioner : This is how it was reported from him, so what is the evidence that this is an innovation?

The Shaykh : The evidence that growing the beard longer than a fist is an innovation? We always say, "Every good is in following the predecessors, and every evil is in following the successors." You are asking for evidence for every issue. I will not hold you accountable if I tell you that this contradicts the scientific principles of the Salaf. Your request for evidence now is exactly like the request of the innovators for evidence regarding what we agree is to be condemned. If that innovator says, "What is the evidence that raising the voice in the tasmee' before the adhan, which we call in the Levant a reminder, or the prayer upon the Messenger after the adhan is an innovation?" We do not say it is an innovation.

The questioner : Aloud.

The Shaykh : Drop it, it is better for you. What did I mention? Pay attention to what I mentioned?

The questioner : Before the adhan.

The Shaykh : We called it tasmee' and said that what is called in the Levant a reminder. Drop the word "aloud."

The questioner : No, after the adhan.

The Shaykh : My brother, I am the one saying that the tasmee' is the reminder in the language of the Levantines. We mean, are these Levantines too? No, not all of them.

The questioner : The Peninsula, I am Kurdish.

The Shaykh : And I am Al-Albani. We are Arabs now. The important thing is if we tell these people that this is an innovation, and they say to you, "Bring the evidence," how will you provide them with the evidence? I am incapable, so I ask you for help. Is it permissible for me to call for your aid now?

The questioner : It is permissible, I cannot do it.

The Shaykh : But it should not be like a prisoner calling for aid from another prisoner. Bring it so we can see.

The questioner : Within what a person is capable of .

The Shaykh : My brother, bring it, bring it so we can see the evidence if the innovator asks you for evidence that this is an innovation.

The questioner : Regarding the prayer upon the Prophet as a reminder.

The Shaykh : Both matters.

The questioner : Before the adhan, this was also not done.

The Shaykh : I am telling you the evidence, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : The evidence for not doing the reminder.

The Shaykh : I see you are tired now, let us stand up and pray. I am saying, suppose you are facing an innovator, may Allah protect us, and he says to you, "What is the evidence that this is an innovation?"

The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and his Companions did not do it.

The Shaykh : Is this evidence or a claim? May Allah guide you, my dear one. This is a claim, not evidence. Because when you say that, the question returns: this is a claim, and claims, unless you establish proofs for them, their proponents are claimants. This is a claim. What is the evidence? If this is evidence for you, and I am telling you the Messenger did not do it.

The questioner : And the hadith is general .

The Shaykh : One by one, and I also say that the Messenger did not do it. Do you accept that from me?

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : How can I accept from you? As soon as you say I am an innovator now, my status is the status of the innovator. What is the evidence that this is an innovation, the tasmee' and the prayer upon the Messenger after the adhan? You told me the Messenger did not do it. This is a claim. If the claim is evidence for you, then if I say the Messenger did not do it, it is also evidence. So why do you not accept from me what you want?

The questioner : Because here there are general hadiths that say he placed his right hand over his left on his chest, whereas there is nothing established there.

The Shaykh : How is there nothing? .

The questioner : Did he say it before the adhan?

The Shaykh : The evidence is being cited for the placement generally, and this is general.

The questioner : And what is the evidence for specifying it regarding not placing the right hand over the left? This is general.

The Shaykh : What is your evidence that there is no reminder before the adhan? You say the Prophet did not do it, and this is what the Messenger did.

The questioner : This is not evidence.

The Shaykh : This is not evidence. You say it is general evidence, and the innovator will say to you, "General evidence for the remembrance of Allah aloud and secretly, at every hour, at every time, in every place." You will return and say, "The Messenger did not do it," and your answer is correct. But I do not know where you got this correct answer. The evidence is that you come and establish what you deny there, you establish it here. There you say general evidence is not sufficient because the Messenger did not do it, and here you argue with general evidence.

The questioner : A specific hadith regarding prayer. Where is the general evidence?

The Shaykh : My brother, it is specific to prayer in one aspect, and not specific to rising in another aspect. The prayer, which is specific to prayer, has two risings. So do not take it. The prayer has two risings. The issue now is, what is the evidence for the placement in the second rising? You return and say, "A general text." This is the argument of the innovators. My dear Shaykh, the matter is very, very important. In your way, all the arguments of the innovators are established against you. You do not bring an objection to them except that they meet it with the same. You say to him, "This is an innovation, what is the evidence?" He says, "The Messenger did not do it." This is also what the Messenger did not do. There is evidence, there is general evidence.

The questioner : The Messenger did not place his right hand on his chest.

The Shaykh : Finish your speech, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : The rising in prayer.

The Shaykh : Finish your speech.

The questioner : In prayer, he places his right hand on his chest.

The Shaykh : Not in prayer, say after bowing, may Allah guide you.

The questioner : No, in prayer after bowing, not prayer. Let us mean.

The Shaykh : More than that, I am telling you, is your evidence general or specific?

The questioner : General, but when it applies to bowing, before bowing or after?

The Shaykh : General, not specific.

The questioner : General, but it does not apply to bowing, not prayer.

The Shaykh : It does not apply to the adhan . General, it does not apply. Why?

The questioner : It does not apply.

The Shaykh : Why?

The questioner : Between this and that.

The Shaykh : A claim, may Allah be pleased with you. A claim.

The questioner : Because the evidence is distant, and this evidence is close. In prayer, he places his right hand over his left in prayer.

The Shaykh : How many innovations are there in the world? By the thousands. Is there not an innovation that has a basis in the Sunnah? Is the supplication after prayer in congregation a Sunnah or an innovation?

The questioner : In congregation, it is an innovation.

The Shaykh : Okay, is there no general evidence?

The questioner : There is no general evidence after prayer.

The Shaykh : Glory be to Allah, what contradictory speech! You say there is no general evidence after prayer. After prayer is a condition. Are we saying absolutely there is no evidence?

The questioner : There is supplication.

The Shaykh : Okay, is it permissible or not permissible?

The questioner : Specifying it after prayer is not permissible.

The Shaykh : Why?

The questioner : Because there is no evidence.

The Shaykh : What do you mean there is no evidence?

The questioner : I mean the Messenger and his Companions did not do it.

The Shaykh : How do you know?

The questioner : It was not established.

The Shaykh : And this is also not established here.

The questioner : I distinguish between them. This is a hadith in prayer.

The Shaykh : My brother, leave the word "prayer" for me, because I always tell you, do not search in a topic where there is no disagreement. We are searching in prayer. You return and repeat the word "prayer." Listen, where is the topic? In the rising. There are two risings, a first rising and a second rising. How many times will you repeat in my ear, "searching in prayer"? My brother, do you understand "searching in prayer"? You return and say, "What is the evidence?"

The questioner : The evidence that he did not raise his hand in the rising.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence that they did not supplicate in congregation? What is the evidence?

The questioner : It was not established.

The Shaykh : Do not say "it was not established."

The questioner : It was not done.

The Shaykh : Do not say "it was not established," because the meaning of "it was not established" is that it was reported and established.

The questioner : Specifying it after prayer.

The Shaykh : This is not our research. Our specification is in prayer. Why do you repeat the speech?

The questioner : You ask me, I say it was not established.

The Shaykh : I did not ask you that. I am criticizing your unscientific expressions. Do not say "what is established," because the phrase "what is established" means "it was narrated and it is established," whereas this was never narrated. It was never narrated that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) made a collective supplication. The answer is the same answer: it was never transmitted from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) that he made a collective supplication. Now, if someone argues with you using a general piece of evidence, what is your answer? Stay in your place. It was not transmitted from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). That is it. If everything that was not transmitted from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) had a general text, we would have to say that it is an innovation. There is no innovation in the world that does not have a general basis. If you have not read the book of Imam al-Shatibi, I ask you to read it, because it is a book by a jurist and scholar whose existence is rare among scholars. Among its merits is that he divided innovation into two types: true innovation and additional innovation. He says that true innovation is that which has no basis in the Shari'ah at all, and it mostly relates to creed. He gives as examples the creed of compulsion (jabr) and the statement that Allah obligates what is impossible, and the like. As for additional innovation, this is the precise scientific subject. He says that additional innovation is that which, if you look at it from one angle, you find it prescribed, and if you look at it from another angle, you find it not prescribed. He gives many examples. He tells you, for instance, that seeking forgiveness after the prayer is a recommended practice (sunnah), but gathering with one voice, he tells you, is an innovation. You will agree with me that it is an innovation. What is the evidence? It falls under the general texts. Therefore, he says, from one side you see it as a recommended practice because the Messenger sought forgiveness, but when you see that they introduced something that was not transmitted from the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), it becomes an innovation. So, it is not permissible to argue with general evidence as long as the practice has not been established by it. All innovations of the type that al-Shatibi called additional innovation have general evidence. If you do not pay attention to this point and you follow an innovation that some scholars spoke of, and you do not have a transmitted argument from the actions of the Messenger, it means you have opened the door to innovation in the religion without you wanting it or realizing it, and you have given the innovators room to treat you in the same way. There is nothing you say has general evidence for, and you do not have a proof that the Messenger did the same, that they will not counter you in the same way. The example is exactly the same situation: lengthening the beard, and the dhikr after the prayer aloud and in congregation, and the supplication. All of these have general texts. So it is not correct to say, "This has general evidence." But you say, "Why?" You do not say, "It is prescribed," because the Messenger did not do it. What do you know? He did not do it here. Now we need to go back. Ibn Taymiyyah says in this kind of subject: "We are not obligated to have a text from the Salaf for every specific issue that they did not do it, but it is sufficient for us that it was not transmitted to us." And Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) says in this kind of occasion: "If they had done it, it would have been transmitted." From this, some scholars disapprove of the adhan for the two Eid prayers. What is your opinion? Is the adhan for the Eid prayers prescribed to alert the people?

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : Now, do you have evidence for that?

The questioner : The fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did not do it.

The Shaykh : This is a rule that you are forgetting. This rule is: if it had been done, it would have been transmitted. There is another phrase: if the causes had been present, it would have been transmitted. If they tell you that the minaret, especially this tall one that touches the sky, is a recommended practice (sunnah), can you prove it to them? Can you bring them evidence? Was there a minaret in the time of the Prophet? Is there a narration in *Sahih al-Bukhari* or in *Sahih Muslim*? No, we have nothing except that it was not transmitted to us that there were minarets in the mosque of the Messenger or in the mosques of the Salaf. The mere non-transmission means that it is an innovation. Now we look at the evidence. Does this innovation fall under "every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Fire," or not? As for saying it falls under a general text, all additional innovations fall under a general text. And now, if you want to pray, we pray. If you are not satisfied, I am with you all the way.

The questioner : I mean, those who say it, some of them say that it is from the recommended practice (sunnah) because the text came regarding the prayer, and we are in the prayer.

The Shaykh : You returned to your old habit, Halimah.

The questioner : We transmit what they said.

The Shaykh : What do we do with you?

The questioner : Yes, this is a specific text.

The Shaykh : We want, we want, we believe. The prayer, the prayer, the prayer. You are still going back to the prayer. The standing, my brother.

The questioner : The standing means the standing is inside the prayer or not?

The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except by Allah... Three lights or not? Is the fan on or not? What are these questions, my brother? Answer me about something I do not know. Yes, yes. The standing is inside the standing, but is your argument with a general evidence or a specific one?

The questioner : Specific, in the prayer.

The Shaykh : Back to the prayer.

The questioner : In the standing, and the standing is attached to the prayer and not outside of it.

The Shaykh : There is no power nor strength except by Allah.

The questioner : And this is what most of our Salafi brothers do in the gripping (of the knees).

The Shaykh : What next?Abu Layla : .
Abu Layla : May Allah help you, our Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Be patient. If you hear the mu'adhdhin, say what he says, then pray for me. Is this specific to the adhan or not?

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : Is it permissible to say it aloud?

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : Why?

The questioner : The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did not do it.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence?

The questioner : Because it is established that after the prayer he said it quietly.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence?

The questioner : That he did not do it after the adhan; it was not transmitted from him.

The Shaykh : Oh Shaykh, may Allah guide you. One makes a mistake once or twice. We go back and you transmit the evidence, not the claim. You say, "The Messenger did not do it." This is a claim, and I am with you. What is the evidence for it? We are still making the claim the evidence. How do the innovators discuss in this style?

The questioner : Now, what do you say?

The Shaykh : I am its father and its mother. May Allah guide you. I say it is an innovation, and I say it because the Messenger did not do it. But if the innovator says to me, "But the general evidence covers this place," I tell you, "Your statement is an innovation, because any general evidence that the Salaf did not act upon, acting upon it is an innovation."

The questioner : And what did the Salaf do?

The Shaykh : What did they do? Let us stay with the first point. May Allah guide you. Because you are in the subject of the situation, you have repeated to my ears ten times: the prayer, the prayer, the prayer, the prayer, despite my warning you, you go back and say the prayer. Then I warn you, and the standing, you go with me on the standing, then you go back to the prayer. Finally, you said the standing is specific to the prayer. So may Allah inspire me to establish the argument against you in your own style. I brought you the hadith: "then pray for me." This prayer is attached to what? To the adhan. Just as this standing is attached to the prayer. So if your statement that this standing is an argument because it is attached to the prayer, then it is also an argument for the innovator that since the prayer for the Messenger is attached to the adhan, it is permissible. What is the evidence? The evidence is your evidence: arguing with general evidence. But you do not hold me accountable after that. You do not realize what arguing with general evidence means. Because when the innovator brings an argument, you say, "By Allah, this argument is refuted." Why? Because you come and say, "The Salaf did not do it," and I am with you. I say, "The Salaf did not do it." But what is the evidence that the Salaf did not do it? Do you have a text that the Salaf did not pray for the Messenger aloud? Can you say a clear word? Yes or no?

The questioner : Yes, it is not established from them that they did it aloud.

The Shaykh : You did not answer the question. Do you have evidence that the Salaf did not say the prayer for the Messenger aloud? Say yes or no?

The questioner : After the adhan, it is not established; it was not transmitted from them after the adhan.

The Shaykh : You are still not entering the point; he is teaching you.

The questioner : I mean it is not established, meaning it was not transmitted from them.

The Shaykh : Here it was not transmitted, oh Shaykh, may Allah guide you. And here too it was not transmitted. What was transmitted there?

The questioner : The non-loudness.

The Shaykh : What is the evidence?

The questioner : It was not transmitted. And here too.

The Shaykh : Stand up for the prayer, everyone. May Allah guide us and you. Say Ameen.