Is it true that the prostration for forgetfulness is optional, whether one wishes to do it before the closing salam or after it?
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The Shaykh : Yes.
The questioner : Is it true, after the closing salam and before the closing salam...
The Shaykh : What?
The questioner : Is it true that the prostration after the salam and the prostration before the salam are by consensus for the sake of recommendation, not for the sake of obligation...
The Shaykh : As for the well-known view, yes; but as for consensus, no. For the Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) holds that what is reported to be done before the salam is obligatory before it, and what is reported to be done after the salam is obligatory after it. He argues based on the command: "Let him prostrate two prostrations after he has said the salam, or before he says the salam," and based on his saying (peace and blessings be upon him)Sahih al-Bukhari 6008 And because if he prostrates before the salam in a place where it belongs after the salam, he has intentionally added to the prayer; and if he delays what belongs before the salam until after the salam, he has intentionally subtracted from the prayer. So the words of the Shaykh al-Islam are undoubtedly strong in terms of reasoning. But who has the imams who know the difference? This is the problem. If the students of knowledge who have designated themselves for knowledge do not understand the difference, what can be said of a man who is not a student of knowledge? He does not know the difference. And so he may become confused; he may prostrate before the salam in a place where it belongs after the salam, or vice versa. He may not prostrate at all, or he may prostrate in a place where there is no prostration. For this reason, we see that it is obligatory for the imams, specifically, to study the prostration for forgetfulness with a complete and conscious understanding. Yes, that is right. Be patient, O... Not everything is for you. Yes.
The questioner : ...the common people...
The Shaykh : Easy, easy. The common people, the common people, but I am certain about it. It is easy. The first time we wrote a treatise on this topic, it spread among the people and began to be read in the mosques. You should close it tightly... It contradicts what the people were accustomed to, so you must first warn them so that you are safe from their tongues, because the common people are like insects that eat everything. And secondly, to clarify the truth, because if they are not convinced, and if some of them fear Allah and do not speak about your reputation, the least they will do is understand that this is the truth. So whenever you do something that contradicts what the common people are accustomed to, it is obligatory to clarify so that the people are on clear understanding of the matter. And then we ask: What is the prostration that is done after the salam? What is the criterion for it? What is the criterion for what is done after the salam?
The student: What is due to an addition.
The Shaykh : What is due to an addition, that is one.
The student: And what is due to a predominant suspicion.
The Shaykh : And what is due to a predominant suspicion, is that correct? Good. And what is before it?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : If he forgot, and this state contradicts what is done before the salam?
The student: If he builds upon certainty.
The Shaykh : And what does it mean to build upon certainty?
The student: He did not have a predominant suspicion...
The Shaykh : If he was in doubt and there was no predominant suspicion, yes.
The student: If it is due to a deficiency.
The Shaykh : A deficiency of what?
The student: A deficiency of an obligatory act.
The Shaykh : Or a pillar, yes. A deficiency of an obligatory act. Why? Because if you omit a pillar, you must bring its substitute, and if you bring its substitute, the matter becomes a case of addition. Yes. Ibn Dawud.
The questioner : Is it true, after the closing salam and before the closing salam...
The Shaykh : What?
The questioner : Is it true that the prostration after the salam and the prostration before the salam are by consensus for the sake of recommendation, not for the sake of obligation...
The Shaykh : As for the well-known view, yes; but as for consensus, no. For the Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) holds that what is reported to be done before the salam is obligatory before it, and what is reported to be done after the salam is obligatory after it. He argues based on the command: "Let him prostrate two prostrations after he has said the salam, or before he says the salam," and based on his saying (peace and blessings be upon him)
offer your prayers in the way you saw me offering my prayers
صلوا كما رأيتموني أصليThe questioner : ...the common people...
The Shaykh : Easy, easy. The common people, the common people, but I am certain about it. It is easy. The first time we wrote a treatise on this topic, it spread among the people and began to be read in the mosques. You should close it tightly... It contradicts what the people were accustomed to, so you must first warn them so that you are safe from their tongues, because the common people are like insects that eat everything. And secondly, to clarify the truth, because if they are not convinced, and if some of them fear Allah and do not speak about your reputation, the least they will do is understand that this is the truth. So whenever you do something that contradicts what the common people are accustomed to, it is obligatory to clarify so that the people are on clear understanding of the matter. And then we ask: What is the prostration that is done after the salam? What is the criterion for it? What is the criterion for what is done after the salam?
The student: What is due to an addition.
The Shaykh : What is due to an addition, that is one.
The student: And what is due to a predominant suspicion.
The Shaykh : And what is due to a predominant suspicion, is that correct? Good. And what is before it?
The student: ...
The Shaykh : If he forgot, and this state contradicts what is done before the salam?
The student: If he builds upon certainty.
The Shaykh : And what does it mean to build upon certainty?
The student: He did not have a predominant suspicion...
The Shaykh : If he was in doubt and there was no predominant suspicion, yes.
The student: If it is due to a deficiency.
The Shaykh : A deficiency of what?
The student: A deficiency of an obligatory act.
The Shaykh : Or a pillar, yes. A deficiency of an obligatory act. Why? Because if you omit a pillar, you must bring its substitute, and if you bring its substitute, the matter becomes a case of addition. Yes. Ibn Dawud.