Is the one who says the Qur'an is created a disbeliever whose disbelief takes him out of the religion, and is the ruler who says so called to repent?

The questioner : He used to call upon these rulers, the caliphs, while they were saying that the Qur'an is created. Therefore, the one who says that the Qur'an is created is not a disbeliever. Is there not a distinction between the one against whom the argument has been established and the one who is confused?

The Shaykh : The issue has a subtlety from another angle: If there were a text in the Qur'an, or in the hadiths of the Messenger (peace be upon him), that the Qur'an is not created, then your argument would be valid. But no such text exists. Rather, in the Qur'an there is: ; meaning, there is a doubt among these people of desires.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : And they did not contradict a definitive text. Therefore, Imam Ahmad and the majority of the scholars declare these people misguided but do not declare them disbelievers, due to the presence of doubt among them, even if the argument is established. But this argument that is established is regarding the understanding of the opponents from the people of desires. However, if there were a text in the Qur'an or the Sunnah that does not accept figurative interpretation, they would not hesitate to declare them disbelievers.

The questioner : And the saying of Imam Ahmad: "Whoever says my words about the Qur'an..."

The Shaykh : "...that my words about the Qur'an are created..."

The questioner : "...is created, then he has committed disbelief"?! Declaring disbelief on the one who said it?!

The Shaykh : No, this does not necessarily follow, as he says, as al-Takhridh reports, because he brought the hadith agreed upon by al-Bukhari and Muslim: , so here the issue of disbelief without disbelief applies.