Did the father notice your inclination toward the science of hadith and the like?

Al-Huwaini: All right; regarding the father, did he notice—peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and blessings—?

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.
Al-Huwaini: Did he notice your inclination toward the science of hadith and the like? Did he have a role in it?

The Shaykh: He had a very negative role, but Allah—Mighty and Majestic—gave me steadfastness. What actually happened—and this was part of my thinking—Allah—Mighty and Majestic—in what He decreed for me of sitting in his shop and learning his trade, that we would argue; I would argue based on what I saw in the Sunnah and hadith, and he would argue based on what he had studied in Istanbul and elsewhere, having spent a long time in that study—peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and blessings.

Another questioner : ... .

The Shaykh: Now, in the name of Allah.
Al-Huwaini: We will postpone the discussion until after the—
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Al-Huwaini: We had reached, O our Shaykh, the point of your argument with your father during the—?

The Shaykh: Yes, so we would discuss; I would argue using hadith and the Sunnah, and he would say: "According to the madhhab." And when he was fed up with the research, and I was long-suffering in that—because I was a young man and he was a middle-aged man, indeed an old man—he would say: "The science of hadith is the craft of the bankrupt"—may Allah have mercy on him and forgive us and him—and so most of our time in the shop was spent arguing. And with the continuation of studying the Sunnah and hadith, I realized errors that were prevalent and controlling people at that time, including the shaykhs. I was, for example, the only son among all my brothers who would accompany my father to the mosques. It was his habit—may Allah have mercy on him—to pray in the Umayyad Mosque. He was influenced by some statements and reports mentioned in the Hanafi books regarding the virtue of praying in the Umayyad Mosque. In the last book of the relied-upon Hanafi books, "Hashiyat Ibn 'Abidin," it is mentioned regarding Sufyan al-Thawri that praying in the Umayyad Mosque is equal to seventy thousand prayers. I used to associate this virtue with such a mosque that was built after the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), and I had no inclination to accept such an exaggeration in virtue by nature. Then the days passed with the years.

Another questioner: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh:—peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and blessings—and my research and study reached the point where I studied the most famous Islamic history, which is "History of Damascus" by Ibn Asakir. This report mentioned in "Hashiyat Ibn 'Abidin" regarding the virtue of the Umayyad Mosque is known to Ibn Asakir. And so, the jurists of the last days convince themselves that it is sufficient for a hadith to be attributed, even if only to Ibn Asakir, to become—as the common people say—a confirmed hadith. When I became proficient—and this was, of course, after years—my turn came to studying all the manuscripts in the Zahiriyyah Library.
Al-Huwaini: What year was that, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh: I do not remember the years, no. The reason for that is that I am not a student of knowledge in the systematic way; where the guide directs you to say: "You register." I had no such thought at all. So when my research and study reached "Ibn Asakir's History," I went through it all. There are 17 volumes of it in the Zahiriyyah Library, each volume being large like this. This report passed by me.
Al-Huwaini: Regarding the Umayyad Mosque?

The Shaykh: Yes, and the chain of narration to it is darknesses, some above others!! So I said: Glory be to Allah! How do these jurists, due to their negligence in studying hadith, narrate a report that, first, if the chain to it were authentic, it would be—as you know in the science of hadith—mudil (having a missing link); so how can it be relied upon as we said, darknesses some above others?! And so they do harm while intending to do good. Then I looked into the story of the burial of Yahya (peace be upon him), or the alleged grave of Yahya (peace be upon him) in the Umayyad Mosque. I read that in "Ibn Asakir's History" as well. The important thing is that my research reached the point that praying in the Umayyad Mosque is not permissible. Look at this Sufi Salafi!!
Al-Huwaini: I mean, he had the right to it! "The Shaykh Al-Huwaini laughs."

The Shaykh: "He laughsThe Shaykh : —may Allah have mercy on him—" There is no power nor strength except by Allah... How can they be combined in one person?! One who respects his Shaykh in the Sufi way; but he is a Salafi!! It became clear to me that praying in this mosque is not valid. And I did not reach that conclusion suddenly, but gradually and with deliberation. I weighed this idea in ijtihad, so I wanted to take the opinion of some shaykhs; among them my father and among themThe Shaykh : Al-Barhani. So on one day, after I prayed the midday prayer with him, perhaps—Allah knows—I confided in him that it had become clear to me that praying in a mosque that contains a grave is not valid.
Al-Huwaini: Did you ask the father?

The Shaykh: No; Al-Barhani. He said: "Write down the things you have obtained." So I wrote and presented them to him, perhaps in three or four pages. The time—according to what I believe—was then in the month of Ramadan. So when I presented these papers to him, he said to me: "If Allah wills, after the festival I will give you the answer." After the festival, he said to me: "All this that you have written and collected has no value." I said to him: "Why?" in surprise! He said: "Because these books from which you quoted are not relied-upon books with us."
Al-Huwaini: With us!

The Shaykh: Yes, the relied-upon one with us is "Maraqi al-Falah," "Hashiyat Ibn 'Abidin," and that's it! I quoted for him from "Mabariq al-Azhara Sharh Mashariq al-Anwar" by Ibn Malik, who is a Hanafi. I quoted for him from "Marqat al-Mafatih Sharh Mishkat al-Masabih" by Mulla Ali Qari, who is a Hanafi. And I no longer remember other texts. He cast them aside like a date stone and said: "These have no value!!" Although there were hadiths I had collected for him, he did not care about them, and did not raise his head to them. And he said: "Our reference in religion is only the books of fiqh, not the books of hadith." In this manner was my father's position as well. And that was the seed for composing my book "Warning the Prostrator from Taking Graves as Mosques."
The important thing is that among my faults, which some people think, is that I do not want my action to contradict my words; so since I adopted that praying in mosques built over graves is not permissible, then I was obligated not to study with my father in the Umayyad Mosque. That was how it was; of course, this annoyed and angered him, but he kept it to himself!!
Another issue came up where I opposed the people; and that is the second congregation in the mosque. The mosque next to my father's, named the Mosque of Repentance, was whereThe Shaykh : Al-Barhani would lead the prayer. And by virtue of the neighborhood, whenThe Shaykh : Sa'id was absent, he would entrust my father to pray in his place. In this mosque there are two mihrabs and two imams: a Hanafi imam, who is Al-Barhani, and a Shafi'i imam who used to be absent.
Al-Huwaini: Two congregations at the same time?

The Shaykh: No, I wanted to tell you that in the Ottoman era, the Hanafi imam would pray before the Shafi'i imam, whether in the largest mosque, the Umayyad Mosque, or in other mosques like this Mosque of Repentance. Then when Taj al-Din, who is the son ofThe Shaykh : "Taj al-Din" who is the son ofThe Shaykh : "Badr al-Din al-Husayni," known for being a hadith scholar in his time, took over the presidency of the Syrian Republic, since he was of the Shafi'i madhhab, he issued his second order that the Shafi'i imam should pray before the Hanafi imam. And so it was implemented, as is the nature of the matter, this order from the one in authority, as they say. This system was implemented in all the mosques, including the Mosque of Repentance; so the Shafi'i imam would pray before Al-Barhani the Hanafi. So when I became a jurist and knew that the second congregation has no basis in the Sunnah, I started praying behind the Shafi'i imam, the first imam. And the second resurrection would rise because of this opposition; first: because of his madhhab, and second: because of his action; because he delayed to pray with the Hanafi imam Al-Barhani. But he was proceeding in his path, and I was proceeding in my path. Then he traveledThe Shaykh : Al-Barhānī was on Hajj or 'Umrah, as I recall, so my father appointed me to pray in his place. I used to avoid praying behind him because, in my view, there was no difference between Al-Barhānī and my father; both of them would delay joining the first congregation. So I would let my father pray the second congregation, while I would pray with the first imam. Then, as they say, "a straw on a camel's back" [a final straw]; it became necessary for my father to be absent from the town for a day or two, so he asked me to pray in his place, meaning the second congregation. I told him, "You know my opinion on this matter, and it is very difficult for me to go against my own opinion." Several issues arose that angered my father against me, and I believe this was due to the instigation of the envious, hateful, and malicious people toward my father and me. One day, while we were having dinner, after he had explained to me the situation I was living in with him regarding my disagreement with him, he said in clear Arabic: "Either you agree, or you part ways." I said to him, "Give me three days to think about this matter." He said, "That is fine." I came back to him with the answer: "Since you have given me the choice, I choose to live away from you so that I do not bother you with my disagreement with your school of thought." And so it was. I left his house without a single dirham or dinar, and I clearly remember that he gave me only 25 Syrian pounds.
Al-Hawīnī: And you were leaving the house?

The Shaykh : Yes, I was leaving the house, but during that entire period, I had established a nucleus of Salafi brothers. One of them had a shop where he sold grains like wheat, barley, and fava beans, and it was in the same location where I had rented a shop for myself. He lent me 200 Syrian pounds so that I could rent the place. My father had some old machines that he did not use and did not need, so he gave them to me. I became independent in my work, and by the grace of Allah, I was precise in my profession and sincere in it, so the customers increased. As they say in the Levant, and the Generous One said: "Take" — O Lord of the Worlds.
The questioner : Yes, I do.