The Shaykh’s talk on the alternative to banks that deal in riba.

The Shaykh : There is a noble man who deposits his money in the bank. We said, “I seek refuge in Allah, are you doing this?” He said, “Yes, and where else am I supposed to go? By Allah, if I put my money in this house—and it is a house, praise be to Allah, built of stone—if I put my money in this house, my soul might not be safe.”

The questioner : This is the answer to my question, my brothers... the one the Shaykh answered.

The Shaykh : It was recorded as a transcript in this session.

The questioner : May Allah reward you with good and bless you.

The Shaykh : They say the Sufis are people of unveiling. The point is, there is no such thing as unveiling, my brothers. But these are scholars who exploit the weakness of judgment and intellect.

The questioner : They may be in contact with the impure ones among the Shayatins.

The Shaykh : No, they exploit an incidental opportunity to hit their target. They say, “By Allah, this is the one who unveils,” to the point where they say, “The Shaykh knows what is in the breasts.”
The student : I seek refuge in Allah.
Another student: This is the least of the Shaykh’s states, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Yes.
The student : This is the least of his states, O Shaykh. I mean, a Shaykh or what? Knowledge?

The Shaykh : The point is, we said to him, “What is this talk?” He said, “It is so, by Allah.” We said, “Fear Allah.” He said, “What is the solution?” We said, “This is the solution.” He said—Exalted is He—: along with the hadith. We said to him, “My brother, do you have a solution to get rid of riba? You know the saying of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him): .” He said, “Yes.” We said, “Do you not know that when you deposit your money, he said, ‘I deposit it in the Islamic bank.’ I said, ‘There is no difference between an Islamic bank and a British one; it is just signs. These are for snatching people’s money and consuming it unlawfully. Do you not know that this money which you, Zayd, Bakr, and 'Umar deposit provides them with millions of funds? They will give it out with riba.’ He said, ‘I know.’ Then how are you helping them in riba? This is forbidden for you. The solution is that you rent a safe deposit box. You pay a fee, or whatever you take, you pay a fee. He does not actually take it, but he gives it. You pay a fee, and the problem is solved. Another problem came up with him. I say this for some of our brothers, perhaps they are afflicted because they are people of wealth, and in their hearts they say what that man’s heart said: ‘Where am I supposed to go with this money?’ We said to him, ‘Rent a safe deposit box.’ He said, ‘Okay, is there a blessing here? There is no bank that has one.’ We said to him, ‘There is one in Amman.’ He said, ‘I will go down to Amman.’ I said to him, ‘Yes, the distance is not far, and he has a car.’ He is, glory be to Allah.
The student : Forty kilometers.

The Shaykh : And this is a man of knowledge—I will not say, excuse me, a student of knowledge, a righteous man, and so on. Yet he finds it burdensome, in the way of obeying Allah and preserving himself from the sin of Allah, to go down to Amman. So his last question came out: “Okay, if we find a non-Islamic bank here and find a safe deposit box there, will that do?” I said to him, “My brother, I have already relieved you earlier. There is no difference between Islamic and British. If you find this box in any bank, you are helping them in good, not helping them in evil. To sum up, we have gone and strayed far, and it is becoming a problem now. The food has arrived, tooth for tooth.”
The student : It is not permissible, it is not permissible.
Another student: It is a kindness, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Take your ease, whatever you like.
The student : ... He sends his greetings to you, O my Shaykh.

The questioner : He knows that he is squeezing wine. There is nothing in this.

The Shaykh : May Allah forgive you!

The questioner : And you, may Allah bless you.

The Shaykh : He knows that he is squeezing it as wine. This is forbidden and clear. So what is the similarity between this and that?

The questioner : The bank will use this money in riba.

The Shaykh : It does not use it in riba. May Allah guide you. This money, the hand of the bank does not reach it.

The questioner : The fee.
The student : The fee for the safe deposit box.

The Shaykh : The fee for the safe deposit box. You are standing at the fee for the safe deposit box.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Then it is not permissible for you to sell him bread, or meat, or anything.
The student: Peace be upon you.

The Shaykh : Will this make him a Muslim?
The student: Peace be upon you.
Another student: ...

The Shaykh : Because I am going after Maghrib.
The student : ... .

The Shaykh : Okay, let us see.
The student : May Allah reward you with good...