Continuation of the discussion on one who died upon shirk (associating partners with Allah) while ignorant, and whether one should seek mercy for him.
Machine translationRead the Arabic original
The Shaykh : Just as you like, "the one who does not come with you, come with him".
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : I am speaking about your grandfather, whom you do not know and of whom you have heard nothing.
The questioner : I heard about what was ... .
The Shaykh : Did you find your grandfather?
The questioner : I am not speaking about my grandfather's grandfather; I am speaking about my grandfather and my father.
The Shaykh : If I made a mistake, I am now shifting the question from your grandfather to your grandfather's grandfather. You are saying the same thing you wanted to say about your grandfather. This is not permissible; it is not befitting, Professor, to expand on suspicions.
The questioner : Now, one says "La ilaha illa Allah" and says, "O Badawi?"
The Shaykh : Hold on, hold on, hold on. We are speaking of one whom we know testifies that there is no god but Allah, and we do not know that he committed disbelief practically or in belief regarding "La ilaha illa Allah."
The questioner : I agree with you on the ten.
The Shaykh : No, you are not with me.
The questioner : If you know that he was pronouncing it at every moment.
The Shaykh : Professor, the only issue is regarding one whose state you do not know. Well, you know the state of your grandfather's grandfather.
The questioner : ... Most people are upon this shirk (associating partners with Allah), even if they call themselves Muslims.
The Shaykh : As you know, may Allah bless you,[An-Nisa 4:171] If you see a person saying "La ilaha illa Allah" and then worshipping other than Allah, that is one thing. But if you know that this person's father was saying "La ilaha illa Allah" and you did not witness from him what you witnessed from his son, [Al-An'am 6:164]. Therefore, I was surprised when you spoke about your grandfather and said, "I do not seek mercy for him." Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah).
The questioner : ... my father.
The Shaykh : No, they are not the same, because a rose follows a thorn, and a thorn follows a rose.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : In summary, let us return to the scenario you want us to discuss: a man who testifies that there is no god but Allah, prays, fasts, performs Hajj to the House of Allah the Sacred, and does everything well. But then he says, "O Faisal, save me, O Badawi, such and such, help me," and so on. This is shirk (associating partners with Allah); this is kufr (disbelief). Yes ... and I am speaking about what? I came with you; it was not you who came with me. I left the discussion I started in order to conclude and shorten the discussion, and I moved directly to this matter we saw: calling for aid from other than Allah the Mighty and Majestic. Do we say about this person that he is a murtadd (apostate) from his religion? I, of course, do not say what Shaykh al-Banna said, jumping from the bottom of the ladder to the top. First, we seek forgiveness for him; this is for later. Do you say he apostatized from his religion?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Excuse me, we do not want diversions, may Allah bless you. One word, and the best speech is that which is little and instructive, may Allah forgive you. You have absolute freedom, according to the knowledge you have, to say he apostatized from his religion or that he did not apostatize from his religion. You say what you see, as for ... .
The questioner : He did not apostatize, but he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah).
The Shaykh : Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah). I say he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah). So teach me with what? You do not teach me anything; you only say that he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah). I am the one who decided this, so I do not need you to repeat what I said.
The questioner : He did not apostatize from his religion.
The Shaykh : This is the answer, may Allah bless you. Well, this is a very important issue. Since you cannot say that this person, who testifies with his tongue that there is no god but Allah, prays, faces our qiblah (direction of prayer), and eats from our slaughter, has apostatized from his religion—this is the truth I know from you, and neither you nor anyone else can say otherwise—then this person who has not apostatized from his religion, what is his religion? What is the religion from which he has not apostatized? Islam. So, what is he? A Muslim. And how is this Muslim treated? By the actions of Muslims or by the actions of apostates? Of course, by the actions of Muslims. So, if this person dies, his children inherit from him. Do we pray over him? We pray over him. The matter is finished. Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah). Pray for him; why not? Since he is a Muslim, and his family inherits from him, and he inherits from those who died before him, and since we pray over him, O Allah, keep us firm upon Your religion. For whom do you pray when you are his dutiful son? You also give charity on his behalf.
The questioner : ...
The Shaykh : I am speaking about your grandfather, whom you do not know and of whom you have heard nothing.
The questioner : I heard about what was ... .
The Shaykh : Did you find your grandfather?
The questioner : I am not speaking about my grandfather's grandfather; I am speaking about my grandfather and my father.
The Shaykh : If I made a mistake, I am now shifting the question from your grandfather to your grandfather's grandfather. You are saying the same thing you wanted to say about your grandfather. This is not permissible; it is not befitting, Professor, to expand on suspicions.
The questioner : Now, one says "La ilaha illa Allah" and says, "O Badawi?"
The Shaykh : Hold on, hold on, hold on. We are speaking of one whom we know testifies that there is no god but Allah, and we do not know that he committed disbelief practically or in belief regarding "La ilaha illa Allah."
The questioner : I agree with you on the ten.
The Shaykh : No, you are not with me.
The questioner : If you know that he was pronouncing it at every moment.
The Shaykh : Professor, the only issue is regarding one whose state you do not know. Well, you know the state of your grandfather's grandfather.
The questioner : ... Most people are upon this shirk (associating partners with Allah), even if they call themselves Muslims.
The Shaykh : As you know, may Allah bless you,
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth.
يا أهل الكتاب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله إلا الحقand no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another
فلا تزروا وازرة وزر أخرىThe questioner : ... my father.
The Shaykh : No, they are not the same, because a rose follows a thorn, and a thorn follows a rose.
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : In summary, let us return to the scenario you want us to discuss: a man who testifies that there is no god but Allah, prays, fasts, performs Hajj to the House of Allah the Sacred, and does everything well. But then he says, "O Faisal, save me, O Badawi, such and such, help me," and so on. This is shirk (associating partners with Allah); this is kufr (disbelief). Yes ... and I am speaking about what? I came with you; it was not you who came with me. I left the discussion I started in order to conclude and shorten the discussion, and I moved directly to this matter we saw: calling for aid from other than Allah the Mighty and Majestic. Do we say about this person that he is a murtadd (apostate) from his religion? I, of course, do not say what Shaykh al-Banna said, jumping from the bottom of the ladder to the top. First, we seek forgiveness for him; this is for later. Do you say he apostatized from his religion?
The questioner : ... .
The Shaykh : Excuse me, we do not want diversions, may Allah bless you. One word, and the best speech is that which is little and instructive, may Allah forgive you. You have absolute freedom, according to the knowledge you have, to say he apostatized from his religion or that he did not apostatize from his religion. You say what you see, as for ... .
The questioner : He did not apostatize, but he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah).
The Shaykh : Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah). I say he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah). So teach me with what? You do not teach me anything; you only say that he committed shirk (associating partners with Allah). I am the one who decided this, so I do not need you to repeat what I said.
The questioner : He did not apostatize from his religion.
The Shaykh : This is the answer, may Allah bless you. Well, this is a very important issue. Since you cannot say that this person, who testifies with his tongue that there is no god but Allah, prays, faces our qiblah (direction of prayer), and eats from our slaughter, has apostatized from his religion—this is the truth I know from you, and neither you nor anyone else can say otherwise—then this person who has not apostatized from his religion, what is his religion? What is the religion from which he has not apostatized? Islam. So, what is he? A Muslim. And how is this Muslim treated? By the actions of Muslims or by the actions of apostates? Of course, by the actions of Muslims. So, if this person dies, his children inherit from him. Do we pray over him? We pray over him. The matter is finished. Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah). Pray for him; why not? Since he is a Muslim, and his family inherits from him, and he inherits from those who died before him, and since we pray over him, O Allah, keep us firm upon Your religion. For whom do you pray when you are his dutiful son? You also give charity on his behalf.