Discussion on the issue of excuse by ignorance

The student: A tape of yours stirred up the shubhah (doubt) of some of the shaykhs, which is the excuse by ignorance or the classification of the mubtadi' (innovator).

The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: I mean, is this innovator an innovator— for example— of a kufr (disbelief) nature, or not?

The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: So I don't know, did any of their responses or anything reach you?

The Shaykh: No, nothing has reached me.
The student: They do not accept this classification.

The Shaykh : Tell me.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: Tell me, what do they hold?
The student: They hold, O Shaykh, that this person who prostrates, for example, to an idol, is not excused.

The Shaykh: The one who prostrates to an idol.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: Even if the call (da'wah) did not reach him.
The student: They do not accept it, I mean, they do not accept it.

The Shaykh: No, don't digress, don't digress, that is enough digression, that is enough digression.
The student: You are teaching us how to digress, O Shaykh.
Another student : Even if the call did not reach him.

The Shaykh: Ah, even if the call did not reach him.
The student: Even if the call did not reach him.

The Shaykh: Yes, this contradicts the Qur'an. How can they say this? It is not reasonable that they say this.
The student: What do they argue with?

The Shaykh: No, I did not ask you that.
The student : Yes.

The Shaykh: I did not ask you what they argue with; rather, I asked you, I said this is not reasonable, that they contradict the Noble Qur'an which says: . What do they say about a man from the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) who died while drinking khamr (intoxicants) before the prohibition of khamr was revealed? What do they say?
The student: By Allah, we do not know, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Huh? I am not hearing you.
The student: Huh? Do you want an answer from me? I support your words, I am just conveying to you what happened.

The Shaykh: May Allah guide you.
The student: Amen.

The Shaykh: Okay, and why are you telling me that since you support my words?
The student: No, I mean, I asked if this reached you, I mean.

The Shaykh: I told you it did not reach me, but I am telling you, it is something that a man of knowledge cannot say that there is no difference between an innovator and an innovator. How is there no difference? There is no difference between a disbeliever and a disbeliever. Take and give with me, take and give with me.
The student: There is a difference, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Okay, they say there is no difference.
The student: They say so in the issue of innovation, I mean.

The Shaykh: Don't digress, don't digress, you are exhausting me.
The student: May you be safe, O Shaykh.
Another student : You need to be patient with us, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Huh? Tell me, I have reached this age and I am patient with people, and my hair has not yet turned white like people's.
The student: May Allah bless you, O Shaykh, and be more patient.

The Shaykh: May Allah do so, if Allah wills. Tell me, do they equate every disbeliever with every disbeliever?
The student: They are in...

The Shaykh : Tell me.
The student : Yes, yes.

The Shaykh : May Allah guide you, May Allah guide you.
The student: Amen.

The Shaykh: They equate every disbeliever. Word and cover, my brothers, learn the Syrian style, and if you want, say Al-Albani, it is not important. Word and cover. Do they differentiate or do they not differentiate?
The student: They do not differentiate.

The Shaykh: It is not reasonable. They do not have the people of the period (ahl al-fatra).
The student: Yes, from this door they differentiate. Yes, O Shaykh.

The Shaykh: Look, in one moment they differed. In one moment.
The student: No, they differentiate regarding the people of the period.

The Shaykh: So they differentiate between a disbeliever and a disbeliever.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: Okay, how can it be said then that they do not differentiate between an innovator and an innovator?
The student : They say.

The Shaykh: Don't tell me, don't tell me. They say... tell me how they do not differentiate, or how they differentiate.
The student: They differentiate between the innovator and the innovator, that one innovator has a bid'ah (religious innovation) that entails kufr, or do you mean, O Shaykh, the innovator to whom the call did not reach?

The Shaykh: I mean any innovator. Do they differentiate between an innovator and an innovator, or not?
The student: They differentiate: the innovator to whom the call reached, and the innovator to whom it did not reach, but he is in a land where there is knowledge.

The Shaykh: Khalafi (later) knowledge or Salafi (early) knowledge?
The student: Salafi knowledge.

The Shaykh : Yes.
The student: It is said that he must go. The proof has been established against him, even if he was not called.

The Shaykh: You do not understand them. You did not understand them.
The student: Yes.

The Shaykh: And therefore, you must connect me with one of them.
The student : If Allah wills.

The questioner: Shaykh, since we are on the topic of disbeliever and disbeliever, and innovator and innovator, I mean.