Ruling on speaking during prayer to correct it. ?

The Shaykh: Yes.

The questioner : Peace be upon you, and Allah’s mercy and blessings.

The Shaykh : And upon you be peace, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings and His forgiveness.

The questioner : Abu Sa'id is with you from Algeria.

The Shaykh : Welcome.

The questioner : I had tasked you with researching the ruling on speaking during prayer intentionally to correct it.

The Shaykh : Yes, exactly.

The questioner : I found, O our Shaykh, that there are differing opinions regarding this. Imam Malik held that it is permissible and does not invalidate the prayer, and this is the position of Imam Malik in the Mawdu'at. However, his other opinion, narrated by Abu Qura, states: "It is not permissible for anyone today." There is a third opinion by Ibn al-Qasim, who distinguishes between the congregation and the individual: speaking is permissible in the congregation to correct the prayer, but it is prohibited for the individual. If the individual forgets and someone outside the prayer informs him, and the forgetful person speaks with him, his prayer is invalidated. Others did not agree with Ibn al-Qasim because the cause for correcting the prayer applies to both the individual and the congregation. As for Imam Ahmad, in the narration of al-Athram, he said: "Whatever a person speaks during his prayer to correct it does not invalidate his prayer; if he speaks about anything else, it invalidates it." He also said in another place, in the narration of al-Athram: "I heard Ahmad ibn Hanbal say regarding the story of the man with two hands: 'The man with two hands spoke because he thought the prayer had been shortened, and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) spoke to refute the man with two hands. He addressed the people, and they responded to him, because they were obligated to respond to him.'" Al-Khiraqi mentioned that the school of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is that if a person speaks intentionally or forgetfully, his prayer is invalidated, except for the imam specifically; if he speaks for the benefit of his prayer, his prayer is not invalidated. As for al-Awza'i, his school is that speaking in prayer is permissible in everything the worshipper needs, in everything the worshipper needs, from... In this, al-Awza'i said: "If a man recited aloud during the 'Asr prayer, saying 'It is 'Asr,' there would be nothing on him. He said: 'If he looked at a boy who was about to fall into a well and shouted at him, or turned toward him, or pulled him, there would be no harm in that.'" As for Imam al-Shafi'i, he says the same as Imam Malik in the narration of Abu Qura, meaning that no one should do that today. As for Abu Hanifa and his companions, they held that speaking in prayer invalidates it in any case, whether forgetfully or intentionally, whether for the benefit of the prayer or otherwise. The companions of Abu Hanifa differed regarding speaking in prayer forgetfully before its completion; some of them invalidated it, and some did not. I have quoted this from al-Tamhid by Ibn 'Abd al-Barr, and Ibn 'Abd al-Barr preferred the first opinion, the opinion of Imam Malik in the narration of Ibn al-Qasim, meaning that speaking is permissible and does not invalidate the prayer. This is what Imam Ibn 'Abd al-Barr preferred in his book al-Tamhid. Is this what we have, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

The questioner : And beware of that.

The Shaykh : The one that Ibn 'Abd al-Barr preferred, does it align with the opinion of al-Awza'i?

The questioner : Al-Awza'i, meaning he was expansive in this!

The Shaykh : I am not asking you whether he was expansive or restrictive. Does it align with him or differ from him?

The questioner : It aligns with him in one point.

The Shaykh : That is it, and what is it?

The questioner : And it is that there is no objection to speaking for the purpose of correcting the prayer.

The Shaykh : It is not clear either, for correcting the prayer, like the example mentioned previously, where he said to him, "And you are praying 'Asr."

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : So do not recite aloud. Does Ibn 'Abd al-Barr permit this?

The questioner : Yes, Ibn 'Abd al-Barr permits this.

The Shaykh : He permits it.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : What is established in my mind is that it is not addressing the worshipper to his imam who is in prayer, but rather it is for correcting the prayer that the imam has spoiled through forgetfulness.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : As indicated by the hadith of the man with two hands and what is similar to it. This is what we, meaning, believe and are certain of. As for the example, and the other example where a man saw a blind man about to fall into a well and said to him, "Beware of the well," for example, and continued in his prayer, such a matter requires evidence. Did you find in what you read evidence that is suitable to rely upon and issue a ruling based on?

The questioner : I did not find this. And I will quote to you the statement of Ibn 'Abd al-Barr in his defense of preferring the school of Malik regarding correcting the prayer only. Shall I read it to you?

The Shaykh: Go ahead.

The questioner : Ibn 'Abd al-Barr said: "If it is said to you: 'You permit speaking in prayer intentionally if it is regarding its correction,' it is said to the one who says that: 'We have permitted it from another perspective, by analogy to what is prohibited, namely tasbih (glorification) in a place other than its designated place in the prayer, and its permissibility to alert the worshipper to what he has neglected in his prayer in his supplementary actions, and by citing the story of the man with two hands as evidence for that as well. And Allah knows best.'" This is the end of the statement of Ibn 'Abd al-Barr.

The Shaykh : What is it? There is no strong argument in his statement because tasbih is dhikr (remembrance).

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : So, the analogy to it with ordinary speech is not valid.

The questioner : Yes, what do you prefer, O Shaykh?

The Shaykh : It is what I told you just now: it is what is derived from the hadith of the man with two hands. If the imam says the taslim (closing salam) from the prayer forgetfully for some of the worshippers behind him, they should alert him, and he has the right to clarify, as the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) did in the story of the man with two hands and in other cases. In summary, there is no speaking during the prayer.

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : During the prayer, there is no speaking. But if the prayer has ended and it becomes clear that there is a deficiency, then at that time speaking is permissible to correct the prayer, not during the prayer. Because, as you know, the rule is that speaking during the prayer is prohibited. And whatever comes contrary to the rule, nothing is added to it; rather, one stops at it. Is the meaning of the speech clear up to here?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : Yes. For example, what the hadith of the man with two hands indicates is contrary to what is known from the prohibition of speaking. But since it occurred and (peace and blessings be upon him) approved it, and did not clarify that this is not permissible again, as is the Hanafi school, we derived from it the benefit that compels us to exclude it from the prohibition of speaking in prayer. As for attaching other matters to it that do not have specific evidence, and this other issue contradicts the rule of the prohibition of speaking in prayer, this is a violation of the rule by opinion and by analogy, and this is not permissible.

The questioner : May Allah reward you.

The Shaykh : And may He reward you.