The Shaykh continues his discussion with the student on how to learn the Qur'an and his advice to him not to follow scholars blindly.

The Shaykh : Withdraw your statement. I mean, the first point was about the words of Allah, and now it is about our scholars who created the issues. We also exonerate them. Do you not know that the Companions differed in some recitations, and the matter reached the Messenger? 'Umar ibn al-Khattab grabbed a Companion by his collar and dragged him to the Messenger. These are the ones who opened up issues.

The questioner : He told him, "It was revealed to me this way," and to the other, "It was revealed to you this way."

The Shaykh : So, when you say "it was revealed this way" and "it was revealed that way," there is no issue. But now you are creating an issue. We are conveying to you that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) recited with *malik* and recited with *malik*. In which two recitations did you recite? What is the issue?

The questioner : There is no issue. I acknowledge that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) recited with *malik* and recited with *malik*, and *malik* are two mass-transmitted recitations.

The Shaykh : So, what is the issue that you dedicated the session to removing?

The questioner : The issue is the recitation of any person. We hear our brothers, and anyone who comes to recite this recitation, I take it from the authentic hadith that it is a mass-transmitted recitation and that he recited with it.

The Shaykh : What is the obstacle?

The questioner : I fear that it will provide a justification and open a door for people to receive the Qur'an and recite the Qur'an without instruction.

The Shaykh : Why is there anyone who recites without instruction?

The questioner : There are many, my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : No, give me an example. Now, it is back to receiving knowledge, not back to having no knowledge. This is a problem. Receiving knowledge is firmly established in his mind, but learning is not firmly established in his mind. Receiving knowledge is your case, exactly like the case of those who follow scholars blindly. And beware. I am an honest advisor to you. The hostility that exists between us, the Salafis and those who follow scholars blindly, stems from your logic. Where did you take it from? Sometimes you are a Hanafi, sometimes a Shafi'i, this is a fifth school of jurisprudence, and now you are in exactly the same situation regarding recitation. My brother, we took from the Book of Allah and from the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). If you see that we are wrong in an issue, may Allah reward you with good, say, "You have contradicted the Book and the Sunnah." Not, "I am saying that the one who follows scholars blindly now, who is not you, I am saying the one who follows scholars blindly who is not you, now I am saying if you see that we have contradicted the Book and the Sunnah, then point out the contradiction." Yes, by Allah, what is your school of jurisprudence? I know you are a Hanafi. Why do you raise your hands? By Allah, it is established for me with mass-transmitted hadiths that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) raised his hands. No, it is not permissible. You want to receive knowledge from a specific school of jurisprudence. This is your position, you who follow scholars blindly. Number two, I was talking about the one who follows scholars blindly number one. This is your position now, my dear. Receiving knowledge, we return and say, receiving knowledge is knowledge, and you agreed with me at the beginning of the session. But you are contradictory, because what is established in your mind is like what is established in the minds of those who follow scholars blindly who receive knowledge without adopting a school of jurisprudence. So, that doctor al-Bouti, what is the title of his thesis? "Non-sectarianism is the most dangerous religious innovation that threatens the Islamic Shari'ah." A doctor who teaches Shari'ah at the University of Damascus. Now, we return to the issue of Islamic jurisprudence in the first centuries. Do you see that there were schools of jurisprudence at that time? One had to follow a specific imam and a specific school of jurisprudence. May Allah guide you, and you know that there was not. So, how did the general Muslims worship Allah and how did they know the rulings of Allah while they did not know? They applied the saying of the Noble Qur'an And we were discussing this topic in the same session. Now, how did the general Muslims learn the recitation of the Noble Qur'an as it was revealed? Was there an imam with a school of jurisprudence in recitation to whom they returned, and they did not know another imam? I also hope your answer is no.

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : No, now you are the one who follows scholars blindly in recitation, just like the one who follows scholars blindly in Islamic jurisprudence. Both of you are in the same problem. You have now created a school of jurisprudence, saying, "I must not receive a school of jurisprudence that narrows what Allah has placed upon His believing servants." I know you do not want this, but you are falling into what you do not want. And you are still enthusiastic and you say, "They recited and did not receive," but you cannot say, "They recited and did not learn." You said that learning and receiving are the same. Do you see how you are contradicting yourself? The reason is that you did not receive the principles of religious knowledge in general, whether it is exegesis, hadith, Islamic jurisprudence, recitation of the words of Allah, or other religious sciences. Receiving knowledge has forms. One of its forms is that a person receives the recitation from one Shaykh, receives Islamic jurisprudence from one Shaykh, receives hadith from one Shaykh, and so on. But if one person receives hadith from ten Shuyukh, is it not better?

The questioner : Much better.

The Shaykh : And the recitation of the Qur'an?

The questioner : He receives it from twenty.

The Shaykh : Better and better. Now, how did the Companions of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) receive the Qur'an and its recitation from him, just as you receive it?

The questioner : That is the assumption.

The Shaykh : Is there a second assumption?

The questioner : There is none.

The Shaykh : I made a mistake. I mean, do you think that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) held sessions to teach the Companions the principles of recitation and tajwid, as the Shuyukh do today in tajwid, hadith, Islamic jurisprudence, and exegesis?

The questioner : This was not the case in that time.

The Shaykh : He does not answer. Go your way.

The questioner : No.

The Shaykh : Did you see how it is! May Allah guide you. The best speech is what is little and sufficient. How did the Companion, whose name I think is Hisham ibn 'Amir, hear 'Umar reciting a recitation that contradicted what 'Umar had heard from his Prophet?

The questioner : Hizam ibn Hakim, I think.

The Shaykh : Hizam ibn Hakim. So he grabbed him by his collar, and you know we mentioned the story of that hour. How did he receive this recitation from the Messenger? This is Hizam? Just as the people you are criticizing now receive it, and you say they did not receive it, in the same way. Those you say did not receive it, Hizam also received the recitation from the Messenger. That is, he did not receive it in the sense that he did not sit in a session where the Messenger said, "This recitation is permissible, and this recitation is not permissible, this is authentic, no, this happened later." But at least he heard the Messenger recite with this recitation, so he picked it up, memorized it, and began to recite it. 'Umar did not hear this recitation, so it was an issue for him, and he dragged him to the Messenger. He told him And you know the hadith This receiving, may Allah reward you, of the knowledge of recitation and reading, and of the knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence and hadith, is what should continue after the Messenger until the Hour stands.
I do not want with this speech to deny holding sessions for knowledge, whether hadith, Islamic jurisprudence, Qur'an, or exegesis. No, but I want us not to limit knowledge to these forms that the development of time, place, and people, and so on, necessitated, so that they do not make us forget what we are in terms of methods of receiving knowledge. The natural, self-evident method, which the Companions of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) were upon. The Messenger leads the people in prayer, he preaches to the people, and the people learn from what they hear from him. And perhaps you remember with me that a noble woman, whose name I do not remember now, said, "I learned Surat Qaf from the mouth of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) while he was preaching with it on Friday."

The questioner : Umm Hani.

The Shaykh : No, it is not Umm Hani. It could be Umm Hisham, for example. The important thing is not the persons now, but what they said and what they showed us. So, when she received Qaf, Surat Qaf, from the sermon of the Messenger on Friday with it, it means she received the recitation from him as it was revealed. It is possible that one day the Messenger recited this surah in prayer or outside of prayer in a second way. Now, the status of the one who receives.
Al-Halabi : Umm Hisham, my Shaykh.

The Shaykh : Did I not say this? So it is not Umm Hani, but I do not care about the verification now. The important thing is yes.
Al-Halabi : Umm Hisham bint Harith.

The Shaykh : The important thing is, the status of the one who receives knowledge from any imam who leads the Muslims today, and hears Abu Malik, for example, recite This is an example, and the example of Umm Hisham. Without comparison, we say, no problem, here, if we compare the one who hears with Umm Hisham. But we say now, without comparison, Abu Malik is like the Messenger in terms of benefiting and receiving knowledge from him. So, what is the obstacle? These people who come behind you, if you recite with a recitation that you received however you received it, I say you received it. What is the obstacle that they did not sit in your session or receive your receiving, but they heard you reciting in one of the ways, and he sat and recited as he heard you? This is not receiving like your receiving, but he followed in it. So why is it not permissible? Why not? Why not?

The questioner : There is also a doubt in this matter. You compared the people of today with the people of the past. When the Noble Qur'an was revealed, and the Arabs were known for their eloquence and rhetoric, and the Arabs who were with the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all), when they established the rules of tajwid derived from their understanding of the reading of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as it is currently customary, when they established these rules, they said that the reason was the entry of many non-Arabs.

The Shaykh : Do not exhaust yourself, because I am going to cut off your way of retreat. The rules that you are confirming, the rules, are they all agreed upon, or are some agreed upon and some disputed?

The questioner : I mean, as I said, the matters are different.

The Shaykh : Which category does our matter fall into?

The questioner : Our matter is from the agreed-upon.

The Shaykh : Strange, after all this discussion, our matter is that it is not permissible to read with a reading one hears from an imam among the imams of the Muslims, unless he received it through the method of transmission?

The questioner : And the principle, my Shaykh...

The Shaykh : May Allah be pleased with you, answer. A believer is not bitten twice from the same hole, so how about the second time, the third time, and the fourth time? This is serious. I am saying do not answer; I am telling you to answer, but do not wander in the answer.

The questioner : The imam from whom I want to receive it must have knowledge of the reading so that I can take it from him.

The Shaykh : You, poor thing, you led the people in prayer, and one of the common Muslims heard you read, for example, "Sirat" as you say, and he started reading it. You are the imam, is it not permissible?

The questioner : According to my understanding, you are asking me.

The Shaykh : Support, my brothers.
Al-Awaisheh: According to your understanding.
Al-Halabi : After this research...

The questioner : You have relieved me of the difficulty of the issue of Umm Hisham, so I tell you it is permissible, because I was initially saying it is not permissible, but now the difficulty has ended, I am done with it. I realized that Umm Hisham heard the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and took the reading from him while he was delivering the sermon on the pulpit on Friday. So this difficulty is gone. The basis is to take it orally, so in reality she took it orally and heard it, so we consider that the one who hears the imam who has knowledge takes it, and it is permissible. Is that right?

The Shaykh : By Allah, our brothers say it is fine, but I do not say it, because you are contradicting yourself from one moment to the next. Now you said I have a difficulty, and now after the difficulty you raised in general terms without detail, you said, but you have relieved my mind with the hadith of Umm Hisham. Why did you not say before you said I have a difficulty? Why did you not say the difficulty is gone and praise be to Allah, Allah guided us to the Sunnah and made us know this hadith, so the difficulty is gone? On the contrary, you raise a difficulty and then what do you say? Yes, by Allah, it is correct. You do not say the difficulty is gone, you relieved me with this hadith! Well, since the time I told you that "Amin" at the end of al-Fatihah has two mass-transmitted readings, "Malik" and "Malk," what is the difference between the talk we had that night at the house of Al-Awaisheh and tonight, and me bringing you a hadith?

The questioner : There is a difference in that you brought something that became clear to me. I understood you more than that time.

The Shaykh : Well, praise be to Allah.