A story the Shaykh recounts that happened to him with one of the Asha'irah from al-Azhar regarding the Exaltedness of Allah (Mighty and Majestic).

The Shaykh : There is no harm. Even if we take up the Shaykhs' time, we will relate this joke to them, which is related to the creed.

The questioner : Please, Shaykh.

The Shaykh : We were in Mina during one of the years of Hajj, and I was sitting on a very clear night. We gathered with some young men, including supporters of the Sunnah in Egypt. When one of the Shaykhs from al-Azhar entered, he heard and sensed that there was a gathering of knowledge, so he sat down. He noticed that the place was occupied by those they call the Wahhabis, that the atmosphere was scholarly and Wahhabi. He said: "But you, the Wahhabis, you ascribe a body to Allah." I said: "How so?" He said: "You say that Allah is on the Throne." I said to him: "Glory be to Allah! We say, and the Lord of the worlds said: " He said: "But you say that Allah has a place."
The point is: now the discussion took place, and this discussion is actually similar to philosophy because it is a logical, rational discussion. However, the Muslim does not need to discuss creedal matters with rational argumentation. But sometimes one may be compelled to discuss with those who judge revelation by reason and thus go astray far away. When he said: "But you make a place for Allah," I said: "I ask you, and I hope you will answer me." He said: "Go ahead." I said to him: "Is a place a non-existent thing or an existent thing? Is the question understood?"

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh : He said: "It is existent." I said: "Did it exist from eternity, or did it come into existence after it did not exist?" He said: "It came into existence after it did not exist." We said: "So are we now in a place?" He said: "Yes." We said: "Is the first heaven above us?" He said: "Yes." "Is it a place?" He said: "Yes." "The second heaven and the seventh heaven, are they places, all of them?" He said: "Yes." I said to him: "What is above the seventh heaven?" He said: "The Throne." I said: "Is it a place?" Because it is created, of course. He said: "Yes, it is a place." I said: "And what is above the Throne?" He surprised me with something I had not expected. He said: "The Kerubiyun angels." I said: "What are the Kerubiyun?!" I said: "What are these Kerubiyun angels?"

The questioner : They are the Kerubiyun.

The Shaykh : Hehehe. He said: "These are angels." I said: "Do you have a verse that proves that there are angels on the Throne and that they have the name Kerubiyun?" He said: "No." I said: "A Prophetic hadith from the Messenger (peace be upon him)?" He said: "No." I said: "It is amazing. You are a man from al-Azhar, and we know that the Shaykhs of al-Azhar teach you that it is not permissible to establish a creed with a single authentic hadith unless it is mass-transmitted. So how do you establish a creed regarding an unseen matter, that there are Kerubiyun angels above the Throne, without a hadith?!" He said: "That is how we were taught that there are angels above the Throne." We said to him: "There is no power nor strength except with Allah. Let us proceed with you now. In your claim, the Kerubiyun angels are above the Throne. What is above the Kerubiyun angels?" He was silent. I said: "Is the universe limited or unlimited?!" He said: "Limited." We said to him: "So the limit of the limited is the Throne, and in your claim that there are Kerubiyun angels above the Throne, above the Kerubiyun angels there is nothing but non-existence, is that not so? Since the universe is limited?" He said: "Yes." So if the Salafis say that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is on the Throne, why do you attribute to them that they placed Him in a place, when there is no place because creation has ended?

The questioner : This is what he answers!

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good. What does the one who is overwhelmed by the argument answer? It is enough for him to swallow his saliva. This is logic that aligns with the texts of the Shari'ah. Allah said: How did He rise above? We do not know. Do we know any of His attributes (Glorified and Exalted is He) that were mentioned previously, such as hearing, seeing, and speaking? No. If we know something about His Essence, we know something about His attributes. And if we do not know, we do not know. We are only believers in everything that came from Allah and His Messenger. We affirm what He affirmed and deny what He denied. This is the limit of the knowledge of all humans if they stand with the word of Allah (Mighty and Majestic).

The questioner : I said the word "Wahhabi" during the joke.

The Shaykh : Yes.

The questioner : So it is a word that causes fear today.

The Shaykh : Yes, by Allah, it causes fear.

The questioner : So we need to see what it means.