A story that happened to Shaykh Al-Albani with one of the Azhar scholars regarding the issue of the Exaltation of Allah - Blessed and Exalted is He - .
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The Shaykh: And a discussion took place between me and some of the Azhar scholars a few years ago, while I was in Mina during Hajj, on this very topic. Listen to this discussion to learn the confusion of the people of knowledge, and to learn the soundness of the Salafi creed:
This Azhari attended while I was in a session with some of the pilgrims there, speaking. I do not remember exactly now. He entered the topic and began to accuse our Najdi brothers, whom they call the Wahhabis, of being those who ascribe a body to Allah. This is a word that wherever you go in all the lands of the world, they say these Wahhabis are those who ascribe a body to Allah. And they did not stop there; they generalized it to say that the Salafis are those who ascribe a body to Allah. We said to him: Why, O Shaykh? He said: They say that Allah is above the heavens. I said to him: Do they say so, or does Allah say so? He paused for a moment. I said to him: Do you not know that Allah says:[Taha 20:5] ?! He said: Yes, this is a verse, and what is its meaning? He brought forth a figurative interpretation, so I refuted it. Then I entered with him into the following research: How do you say, regarding the one who believes that Allah is above all creations, that He is in a place? I asked him the following question; so I hope you pay attention. Is a place a matter of existence or non-existence? The intended meaning of this statement is: does it have an existence and a reality, or is it something a person imagines, like the phoenix, which they use as an example? They imagine a very large bird that has no existence except in the mind of the one who imagines it. Is a place something a person imagines, or is it a matter of existence? He said: No, it is a matter of existence. I said to him: I agree with you on that, because a place is part of the creation, and [Ya-Sin 36:82], and by His saying this, the entire creation is included. So, a place is a matter of existence, and we agreed on this... .
I said to him: Is the first heaven above us? He said: Yes. I said to him: Is this a place? He said: Yes. I said to him: Are the third, fourth, and seventh heavens a place? He said: Yes. I said to him: And above the seventh, is the Throne of the Most Merciful a place? He said: It is a place. I said to him: Above the Throne of the Most Merciful, is there a place or something above the Throne of the Most Merciful? Listen to a word I used to read in some of the books of spiritual exhortation. He said: Above the Throne are the Kerubiyun angels. I said to him: What are these Kerubiyun angels? He said: Angels above the Throne. I said to him: Is there a verse? He said: No. I said to him: Is there a hadith? He said: No. I said to him: Glory be to Allah, I know that in the Noble Azhar - their Azhar - they teach the students that a creed is not established by an authentic hadith; it must be that this hadith is mass-transmitted (mutawatir) for a creed to be established by it. So, glory be to Allah! How can I establish Kerubiyun angels above the Throne when there is not even a weak hadith, meaning in the best of cases, and not even a weak hadith, and yet this is not our topic? Suppose that above the Throne there are angels called the Kerubiyun angels; what is above the Kerubiyun angels? Is there anything after that? I forgot to mention something to you; is the creation, of which a place is a part, limited or unlimited? He said: Limited. On this basis, I proceeded with him in this question and answer, and we reached the Kerubiyun angels. We conceded to him, for the sake of argument, their existence. Is there anything after this creation, which is the Throne and upon it the Kerubiyun angels? He said: No. I said to him: Is there a place? He said: No. So why do you attribute to the Salafis that they say Allah is in a place, when they are the ones who say above the Throne? Above the Throne. In truth, I hope you understand this: above the Throne is not a place. Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is not in a place. That is: when the Salafi creed establishes that correct creed, which is disseminated in many verses and hadiths, that Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is above all creations; then He is not in a place, by our agreement and theirs. And this is a discussion from which no one can escape. The creation is certainly limited in the view of all believers, and a place is part of this creation. So when the creation ends, there is no place remaining. So Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is above the place, not in a place; so where is the likening of Allah to creation? And where is the ascribing of a body to Allah?
And truthful is the one who said:
And all good is in following those who came before *** And all evil is in the innovation of those who came after
I do not know if I have missed answering some of what came in the question.
This Azhari attended while I was in a session with some of the pilgrims there, speaking. I do not remember exactly now. He entered the topic and began to accuse our Najdi brothers, whom they call the Wahhabis, of being those who ascribe a body to Allah. This is a word that wherever you go in all the lands of the world, they say these Wahhabis are those who ascribe a body to Allah. And they did not stop there; they generalized it to say that the Salafis are those who ascribe a body to Allah. We said to him: Why, O Shaykh? He said: They say that Allah is above the heavens. I said to him: Do they say so, or does Allah say so? He paused for a moment. I said to him: Do you not know that Allah says:
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىHis command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, "Be," and it is.
إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُ إِذَا أَرَادَ شَيْئًا أَنْ يَقُولَ لَهُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُI said to him: Is the first heaven above us? He said: Yes. I said to him: Is this a place? He said: Yes. I said to him: Are the third, fourth, and seventh heavens a place? He said: Yes. I said to him: And above the seventh, is the Throne of the Most Merciful a place? He said: It is a place. I said to him: Above the Throne of the Most Merciful, is there a place or something above the Throne of the Most Merciful? Listen to a word I used to read in some of the books of spiritual exhortation. He said: Above the Throne are the Kerubiyun angels. I said to him: What are these Kerubiyun angels? He said: Angels above the Throne. I said to him: Is there a verse? He said: No. I said to him: Is there a hadith? He said: No. I said to him: Glory be to Allah, I know that in the Noble Azhar - their Azhar - they teach the students that a creed is not established by an authentic hadith; it must be that this hadith is mass-transmitted (mutawatir) for a creed to be established by it. So, glory be to Allah! How can I establish Kerubiyun angels above the Throne when there is not even a weak hadith, meaning in the best of cases, and not even a weak hadith, and yet this is not our topic? Suppose that above the Throne there are angels called the Kerubiyun angels; what is above the Kerubiyun angels? Is there anything after that? I forgot to mention something to you; is the creation, of which a place is a part, limited or unlimited? He said: Limited. On this basis, I proceeded with him in this question and answer, and we reached the Kerubiyun angels. We conceded to him, for the sake of argument, their existence. Is there anything after this creation, which is the Throne and upon it the Kerubiyun angels? He said: No. I said to him: Is there a place? He said: No. So why do you attribute to the Salafis that they say Allah is in a place, when they are the ones who say above the Throne? Above the Throne. In truth, I hope you understand this: above the Throne is not a place. Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is not in a place. That is: when the Salafi creed establishes that correct creed, which is disseminated in many verses and hadiths, that Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is above all creations; then He is not in a place, by our agreement and theirs. And this is a discussion from which no one can escape. The creation is certainly limited in the view of all believers, and a place is part of this creation. So when the creation ends, there is no place remaining. So Allah - Mighty and Majestic - is above the place, not in a place; so where is the likening of Allah to creation? And where is the ascribing of a body to Allah?
And truthful is the one who said:
And all good is in following those who came before *** And all evil is in the innovation of those who came after
I do not know if I have missed answering some of what came in the question.
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.
