Who are the Kerubiyun angels?

The questioner : Who are the Kerubiyun angels?

The Shaykh : Who are the Kerubiyun angels? To my knowledge, there is no established hadith that mentions this name for the angels—the Kerubiyun angels. In fact, for about thirty years, this name had not passed through me in the hadiths I had read in hundreds—if not thousands—of books, most of which were manuscripts, until I heard it, or heard this name, in Mina during one of the Hajj seasons. I was sitting on a calm and beautiful night in Mina, talking with some of our brothers from the Egyptian and Syrian supporters of the Sunnah and others. When a Shaykh with a decent appearance entered, he greeted us, sat down, and listened. After I paused for a moment, he joined the conversation. It became clear from his speech that he was one of those who studied at al-Azhar and harbors hatred in the depths of his soul for the Salafi call or the call to tawhid (the oneness of Allah). He was influenced by some false claims attributed to the group of tawhid in all lands of Islam, whether they are here, in Egypt, in Syria, or elsewhere. He began to attack and say that the call of the Wahhabis—using this name—is a good call, but they liken Allah to creation. I asked him: How is that? He said: They say that Allah (Mighty and Majestic)—Glorified is Allah!—makes a mistake in the Qur'an without realizing it. He said: They say that Allah rose above the Throne. I said to him: Is this their statement or the statement of the Lord of the Worlds? He corrected himself, meaning that they interpret this verse by interpreting it to mean that Allah is sitting on His Throne. I said to him: My brother, this interpretation is not correctly attributed to them. The disagreement between them and their opponents is not about likening the Lord of the Worlds to creation; that is false by consensus. Rather, the disagreement is whether it is permissible to interpret istiwa' (rising above the Throne) as meaning dominion, or whether the correct view is that istiwa' means rising above. I went into this topic at length. It is a very obvious matter that the summary of the Salafi creed in this specific issue is that Allah has the attribute of being above. He clung to this and said: Is it conceivable that Allah (Mighty and Majestic) is above the Throne? Does that mean we have placed Him in a location? I said to him: No, that is a delusion on your part. We disavow a creed that confines Allah (Mighty and Majestic) to a location, for He is the Most High, the Magnificent. Then I began to discuss with him in my own way. I said to him: Do you agree with me that Allah was and there was nothing with Him? He said: Of course. I said: When Allah was, was there a Throne? He said: No. So Allah was and there was nothing with Him, then He created the Throne? He said: Yes. I followed up with him and said: We are now on earth; what is above us? He said: The lowest heaven, then the second, until we reached the seventh. I said: What is above the seventh? He said: The Throne. I said—and here is the point—what is above the Throne? He said: The Kerubiyun angels. For the first time in about thirty years, I heard this name. I said: What is this? The Kerubiyun angels above the Throne? We know that what is above the Throne is the Creator of the Throne, based on the previous verse and the interpretation of the Salaf, which is that He rose above the Throne, meaning He is above it. And as the moderate ones in this issue said:
"And the Lord of the Throne is above the Throne, but without the description of being situated in contact."
So Allah is rich in Himself, needing nothing from the worlds. But I am hearing for the first time that those above the Throne are the Kerubiyun angels. Do you have a verse that first establishes that there are angels called the Kerubiyun angels? He said: No. I said: Fine, do you have a hadith in which they are mentioned by this name? He said: No. I said: Then where did you get this belief that there are Kerubiyun angels above the Throne? He said: Our Shaykhs at the Noble al-Azhar taught us this. I said: How amazing! I know that the scholars of al-Azhar tell their students in their lessons regarding the principles of creed and the principles of jurisprudence that authentic ahad (single-narrator) hadiths do not establish a creed. So how did you teach them a belief that is not mentioned in the Qur'an or the Sunnah? How did you believe it? The man was stunned! Then I continued speaking. I said to him: Suppose those angels you call Kerubiyun are above the Throne; what is above them? The man stopped, standing confused. I had previously established with him that Allah was and there was nothing with Him, and that this is derived from "Be, and it is." So there was nothing there, then Allah said to His creation "Be," and it was. So when we reached the Throne, according to your claim, those angels are above the Throne; what is above these angels? Is it non-existence or existence? He said: No, non-existence; because we agreed that before Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He) created the heavens and the earth, Allah was and there was nothing with Him. So before Allah created anything, there was nothing. So when your knowledge ends at the fact that the Kerubiyun angels are above the Throne and there is nothing beyond that in terms of creation, because creation has ended? If the Salafis say that Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He) rose above the Throne, meaning He is above it, why do you attribute to them that they confined Allah (Mighty and Majestic) to a creation when there is no creation there? Because creation is confined and limited. In our view, the end and the highest point of creation is the Throne. In your view, it is the Throne, and above it are the Kerubiyun, and nothing after that. So the correct creed, by reason and by transmission, is the creed of the righteous Salaf, because they did not place Allah in a location as you claim, for there is no location beyond the Throne; it is pure non-existence except for Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He). But why is it that when you fled from what you attributed to the Salafis, from which they are innocent—that Allah is not in a location, because what is after the Throne is not a creation and not a location, so He rose above the Throne—why do you flee from affirming this attribute for Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He), which is a complete attribute of transcendence? Because He is not in creation. How is it that you say Allah is in every place, confining Him to the creation He created after it had no existence? You are the ones who liken Him to creation, and you are the ones who ascribe a body to Him. We, the Salafis, are only those who say what He (the Exalted) said: , and based on this verse with its two ends, we purify Him (the Exalted) with complete purification, and we affirm for Him the attributes as befits His greatness and majesty.
Please proceed.