Discussion of the rising of Allah (Mighty and Majestic) above His Throne.
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The Shaykh : You say He rose above the Throne with His Self, right?
The questioner: No.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner : ... the Salaf, they said: He rose,[Taha 20:5].
The Shaykh : Do not deviate from the answer.
The questioner : ... the subject of the Salaf's answer.
The Shaykh : My brother, do you want to know the value of time and not want to argue? If someone asks you a question and you know the answer, give them the answer. If you do not know, say: "I do not know." If you do not know and there is someone who knows, let them tell you; otherwise, it is the same as you saying: "I do not know." So you are saying: "Did the Most Merciful rise above His Throne with His Self or not?"
The questioner : I do not know.
The Shaykh : You do not know, what do you say?
The questioner : The matter of the Most Merciful on the Throne is that it means elevation, and they stopped there; they did not say: "Not with His Self" or ...
The Shaykh : You have now attributed to the Salaf something, which is your saying: "They stopped." Where did you get this "they stopped" from?
The questioner : They said:[Taha 20:5] ... meaning He is elevated.
The Shaykh : My brother,[Taha 20:5] the intended meaning is Allah.
The questioner : Yes, but we mean "He is elevated."
The Shaykh : I am not asking you ... = -- And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah -- = We are not asking you now what the meaning of "istawa" is, so that you would say "they interpreted it" ...
The questioner : This is how I ... regarding the Salaf, I did not know anything other than that, and I stop at that. I say: I stop at that.
Another questioner : ... on ... the Most Merciful on the Throne.
The Shaykh : I am not asking you what we should say about the meaning of "istawa" so that you would say "interpret it" ... rather, I am telling you: You attributed to the Salaf that they stopped.
The questioner : I said: I stop at that.
The Shaykh : You said: The Salaf stopped.
The questioner : If I said it was a mistake, I would say: I stop at that.
The Shaykh : Look, did I say it?
The questioner : I am not telling you: If you said that, you have made a mistake.
The Shaykh : It will not do, then you said, you do not say: If you said.
The questioner : I, my professor, I stop when, at something they said.
The Shaykh : What did they say? Bring it so I can see?
The questioner : I said: He said: The Most Merciful is on the Throne, let ... I said:[Taha 20:5] And they said: The rising means elevation and did not ...
The Shaykh : My brother, you will still return and say: Elevation means exaltation.
The questioner : Yes, ... they stopped at this meaning.
The Shaykh : We are asking you: What did the Salaf say regarding the meaning of the Most Merciful, with His Self or with His Attribute?
The questioner : I said that I do not know, saying "with His Self" ... I said: I do not know, I ... you know that he said "with His Self."
The Shaykh : You did not say it that way.
The questioner : Now I tell you: I do not know. I told you a moment ago that you say: I do not know, or you say: I know? I said: I do not know.
The Shaykh : Okay, who are the Salaf in your definition?
The questioner : The first three generations.
The Shaykh : Okay; can we say to you that the Salaf said.
The questioner: Who?
The Shaykh : Abdullah ibn Mubarak.
The questioner : What... .
The Shaykh[Taha 20:5] He exalted Himself, Allah (Blessed and Exalted is He) is above His Throne with His Self, and He is with you with His knowledge.
The questioner : We believe and we affirm, did they say He is with some of His servants with His Self?
The Shaykh : Okay; now we have returned, we asked you previously, we will ask you again, do you believe that[Taha 20:5] He rose with His Self or not?
The questioner : Now we believe because that was transmitted from the Salaf.
The Shaykh : Okay; if an expression comes to you that you do not know about from the Salaf; what will be your understanding of the text?
The questioner : I stop.
The Shaykh : No, you do not stop, you stop in a matter that is ambiguous; as proof, when you hear the phrase "Allah created the heavens," do you stop, wondering did Allah create the heavens with His Self?
The questioner : We say: Allah (the Exalted) created the heavens, and He is the Creator.
The Shaykh : You did not answer me, you did not answer me!
The questioner : I answered you, I told you I say: Allah created the heavens, and He is the Creator.
Another questioner : With His Self.
The questioner : I say "with His Self" requires evidence from those who preceded you from the Salaf, ... it is a matter of the unseen, and the matter of the unseen requires proof.
The Shaykh : When you say: Allah (the Exalted) said.
The questioner : The mind cannot comprehend it.
The Shaykh : When you say: Allah (the Exalted) said.
The questioner : Allah (the Exalted) said.
The Shaykh :[Ghafir 40:60] .
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do we say He is with His Self or not?
The questioner : Yes, He is the One who said it.
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : He is the One who said it.
The Shaykh : ... with His Self or not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between this and this?
The questioner : There is no difference, they said "with His Self."
...
The questioner: No.
Another questioner : ... .
The questioner : ... the Salaf, they said: He rose,
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe Shaykh : Do not deviate from the answer.
The questioner : ... the subject of the Salaf's answer.
The Shaykh : My brother, do you want to know the value of time and not want to argue? If someone asks you a question and you know the answer, give them the answer. If you do not know, say: "I do not know." If you do not know and there is someone who knows, let them tell you; otherwise, it is the same as you saying: "I do not know." So you are saying: "Did the Most Merciful rise above His Throne with His Self or not?"
The questioner : I do not know.
The Shaykh : You do not know, what do you say?
The questioner : The matter of the Most Merciful on the Throne is that it means elevation, and they stopped there; they did not say: "Not with His Self" or ...
The Shaykh : You have now attributed to the Salaf something, which is your saying: "They stopped." Where did you get this "they stopped" from?
The questioner : They said:
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe Shaykh : My brother,
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe questioner : Yes, but we mean "He is elevated."
The Shaykh : I am not asking you ... = -- And upon you be peace and the mercy of Allah -- = We are not asking you now what the meaning of "istawa" is, so that you would say "they interpreted it" ...
The questioner : This is how I ... regarding the Salaf, I did not know anything other than that, and I stop at that. I say: I stop at that.
Another questioner : ... on ... the Most Merciful on the Throne.
The Shaykh : I am not asking you what we should say about the meaning of "istawa" so that you would say "interpret it" ... rather, I am telling you: You attributed to the Salaf that they stopped.
The questioner : I said: I stop at that.
The Shaykh : You said: The Salaf stopped.
The questioner : If I said it was a mistake, I would say: I stop at that.
The Shaykh : Look, did I say it?
The questioner : I am not telling you: If you said that, you have made a mistake.
The Shaykh : It will not do, then you said, you do not say: If you said.
The questioner : I, my professor, I stop when, at something they said.
The Shaykh : What did they say? Bring it so I can see?
The questioner : I said: He said: The Most Merciful is on the Throne, let ... I said:
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe Shaykh : My brother, you will still return and say: Elevation means exaltation.
The questioner : Yes, ... they stopped at this meaning.
The Shaykh : We are asking you: What did the Salaf say regarding the meaning of the Most Merciful, with His Self or with His Attribute?
The questioner : I said that I do not know, saying "with His Self" ... I said: I do not know, I ... you know that he said "with His Self."
The Shaykh : You did not say it that way.
The questioner : Now I tell you: I do not know. I told you a moment ago that you say: I do not know, or you say: I know? I said: I do not know.
The Shaykh : Okay, who are the Salaf in your definition?
The questioner : The first three generations.
The Shaykh : Okay; can we say to you that the Salaf said.
The questioner: Who?
The Shaykh : Abdullah ibn Mubarak.
The questioner : What... .
The Shaykh
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe questioner : We believe and we affirm, did they say He is with some of His servants with His Self?
The Shaykh : Okay; now we have returned, we asked you previously, we will ask you again, do you believe that
The Most Merciful [who is] above the Throne established.
الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَىThe questioner : Now we believe because that was transmitted from the Salaf.
The Shaykh : Okay; if an expression comes to you that you do not know about from the Salaf; what will be your understanding of the text?
The questioner : I stop.
The Shaykh : No, you do not stop, you stop in a matter that is ambiguous; as proof, when you hear the phrase "Allah created the heavens," do you stop, wondering did Allah create the heavens with His Self?
The questioner : We say: Allah (the Exalted) created the heavens, and He is the Creator.
The Shaykh : You did not answer me, you did not answer me!
The questioner : I answered you, I told you I say: Allah created the heavens, and He is the Creator.
Another questioner : With His Self.
The questioner : I say "with His Self" requires evidence from those who preceded you from the Salaf, ... it is a matter of the unseen, and the matter of the unseen requires proof.
The Shaykh : When you say: Allah (the Exalted) said.
The questioner : The mind cannot comprehend it.
The Shaykh : When you say: Allah (the Exalted) said.
The questioner : Allah (the Exalted) said.
The Shaykh :
And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you."
وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْThe questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : Do we say He is with His Self or not?
The questioner : Yes, He is the One who said it.
The Shaykh : Yes?
The questioner : He is the One who said it.
The Shaykh : ... with His Self or not?
The questioner: Yes.
The Shaykh : What is the difference between this and this?
The questioner : There is no difference, they said "with His Self."
...
Source
www.al-albany.com
The Arabic text is copied verbatim from the original source, without any edits.