What is the ruling on importing certain goods from foreign countries through banks, as they serve as a guarantee for this transaction?

The questioner: Shaykh, especially dealings with other countries, all of them are conducted through banks, such as opening a credit line to import specific goods. This is done through banks as a guarantee that the man who requested these goods from such-and-such company has the price of these goods in such-and-such bank, and it has been transferred to the owners of the company from whom he bought. This is so that a representative from them—Shaykh—does not have to go to such-and-such country. They bring the sample with him and transport it, and he tells you: No, I am doing it through the bank, and the group ships it to me, and the matter is done.

The Shaykh: I understand this. This is if a person does not have money in the bank and requests to withdraw...

Another questioner: The second method mentioned by the brother in this bank involves two main methods: a current account.

The Shaykh: And what are they? Yes, a current account.

Another questioner: This current account is where money is placed in the bank without taking riba (usury or interest) on it. It is available on demand; whenever he withdraws half, a portion, or all of the money, the bank does not object. The second type is where he places his money so that it can be used to generate riba (usury or interest); this is conditional, and it is forbidden to withdraw it today, tomorrow, or the day after for a period of five months or one year, or for a period of one year where a third or a quarter can be withdrawn, but the whole amount is not valid for withdrawal until the end of the year. So, the nature of their company, since it deals with people by paying them the price of goods and receiving from them, paying the price of some, and not being able to keep its money locked up, it keeps its money moving, withdrawing and returning it whenever it wants. So, in this case, which is called a current account, they do not take anything from it, but you deposit it in the bank.

The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.

Another questioner : And beware of that.

The Shaykh: I understood this matter, but I raised an objection to it; that is, suppose now you are a company whose capital is much larger.

Another questioner: Than its actual need.

The Shaykh: Yes; meaning—as an example of the matter—it has placed in a bank, say, one million dinars = -- my need, may Allah reward you -- = and what it needs from what you called current withdrawal, or what? Half of this million. The other half, which does not move for years, does the company not take riba (usury or interest) on it?

Another questioner: Yes, if it has an Islamic aspect, many Muslims now are owners of companies.

The Shaykh: No, no, let us not make it an Islamic or non-Islamic issue; we are talking about the current banking system. And therefore, we said, what is this company, Muslim or half-Muslim, or so on? It does not matter. Now, we are speaking in general terms that a company deals with one of the banks, regardless of the nature of the company.

Another questioner : Good.

The Shaykh: But its capital deposited in the bank is much larger than the money it withdraws over the years.

Another questioner: Good.

The Shaykh: Does it not take riba (usury or interest)?

The questioner: It does not take it if it is a current account. If you deposit it under this name, even if it has placed two million and does not withdraw them for the whole year, and it placed them under the name of current account, there is no riba (usury or interest) on them... they do not take from them, unless it was stipulated... an agreement at the beginning when the balance is opened, that it is opened as a current account; God willing, two million placed for the whole year, they do not take a fee.

The Shaykh: You know that people use their minds with Islamic rulings, so we... use our minds with non-Islamic rulings; that is, with man-made laws. This is not reasonable, because the dealing between banks and customers with banks is based on a logical, rational, material basis. Is this statement correct or not? So, if we suppose a company has millions deposited in the bank, but the money it withdraws during the year is a part of these millions, how can it be said that the bank stipulates that the owner of this huge capital has no right to what they call interest, and we call it riba (usury or interest); merely because there is what?
What did you call it?

Those present: Current.

The Shaykh: Current account. This current account does not move the capital from its place except for a very small part of it. This statement is not logical.

The questioner: Praise be to Allah, today we are proceeding with...

The Shaykh: Correct, but my intention is that we be certain...
...

Another questioner: Current debtor, the name of the account is current debtor, or.

The Shaykh: No, the discussion has moved away from the point I am circling around; that is, you know now that if a specific company has millions in one of the banks and does not withdraw from these millions in the whole year except one million, those millions are working in it, the bank works with them, and the company has no benefit from them?

Another questioner: What happens is that when this person who wants to deposit the millions knows that he will consume a small part of them over the whole year, he is originally aware—Shaykh—of this matter and he works with them, or he does not place them, he works with them.

The Shaykh: Works with them where?

Another questioner: ... because his work requires that he take the amount, he might take all of it within a month, and he might utilize two-thirds of it, Shaykh, so he is forced in this case to move the whole amount, not a part, and leave the remaining millions.

The Shaykh: Do you see now? He answered with an answer that coincides with logic frankly.

Another questioner: Correct, correct, he says, Shaykh, I do not place one million dinars just to consume two thousand dinars from it, for example.

Another questioner: It does not matter, I... the dealings of people, but the bank's law is like this, this is the bank's law.

The questioner: Bank law, this has a current account and it has the other side.

Another questioner: They work in this law—Shaykh—even better than this, they place one thousand dinars in the Arab Bank, they work with it, and they place one thousand dinars in the other bank, the National Bank, as current... they keep withdrawing and depositing.

The Shaykh: And can the same operation be done in one bank?

Another questioner: Yes, it is possible, it is possible.

Another questioner: It is possible to take two account numbers and work with one section and leave...

Another questioner: Now—Shaykh—Ziyad is waiting for the answer.

The Shaykh: Still, still, I am not lost regarding Ziyad, I am not lost, but we need to clarify this point. I say, regarding your question, look at the type of your work; if your work, as you heard just now, is analysis, did I say what?

The questioner: Chemical worker.

The Shaykh : Oh?

The questioner: Chemical worker.

The Shaykh: Yes, so if there is no religious violation in your work itself, it does not harm you that the bank deals with riba (usury or interest), just like all the employees in the state who take from the state's money, which is all in the banks. But these employees, some are engaged in work that is permissible by the Shari'ah, and some are engaged in work that is not permissible by the Shari'ah; do you understand how?

The questioner: Yes.

The Shaykh: So, we look at the type of work. If this work does not have a violation of the Shari'ah and does not have direct assistance to the forbidden; I mean by that—for example—employment in the bank itself is not permissible; because this involves direct assistance to this forbidden work. But any other work, like your work or any employee in the state whose work, in terms of the work itself, whether he works for the state, or for a company, or for a specific person; as long as his work, in terms of the work, is permissible by the Shari'ah, then there is nothing on you.