What is the ruling on importing certain goods from foreign countries through banks, as they serve as a guarantee for this transaction?
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The questioner : Shaykh, especially dealings with other countries, all of them are conducted through banks to open a credit line for importing specific goods. It is done through banks as a guarantee that this man who said this specific good... the price of this good is in such-and-such bank, and it has been transferred and guaranteed to the owners of the company from whom he bought it, so that a representative from them does not have to go to such-and-such country to take the sample with him and bring it back by road. He says, "No, I will transfer it through the bank, and the matter is settled."
The Shaykh : This is if a person is not depositing money in the bank and is requesting to withdraw... .
Another questioner: The second method mentioned by the brother involves two matters... a current account.
The Shaykh : Yes, a current account.
Another questioner: This current account, where money is placed in the bank, they do not take riba on it. It is available on demand; whenever he withdraws the money, whether half, a part, or all of it, the bank does not oppose him. The second type is where he places his money so that they profit from it. This is conditional; it is forbidden to withdraw it today or tomorrow or after that. It must be for five months, or for a year, or for a year and a third, or a quarter. You can withdraw it, but not all of it unless after the year ends. The nature of their partnership is that they deal with people, paying them the price of goods and taking from them. They cannot keep their money locked up. They keep their money going up and down, withdrawing and returning it at any time. In this case, which is called a current account, they do not take anything on it, but they just put it in the bank.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.
Another questioner: And beware of...
The Shaykh : I understood this matter, but I raised an objection to it. For example, suppose you are a company whose capital is much larger...
than its actual needs.
The Shaykh : Yes, meaning as a representation of the matter, it has placed in a bank, say, one million dinars... May Allah reward you. And what you need from what you called current withdrawals, and what is half of this million, and the other half that does not move for years, does the company not take riba?
Another questioner: Yes, if there is an Islamic aspect, many Muslims today who own companies...
The Shaykh : No, do not take the Islamic issue or the non-Islamic issue. We are talking about the system of banks today. And therefore, we said, what if this company is Muslim, or half Muslim? It is fine. Now we are speaking in general terms about a company dealing with one of the banks, regardless of the nature of this company... .
Another questioner: Good.
The Shaykh : But its capital deposited in the bank is much larger than the money it withdraws over the years.
Another questioner: Okay.
The Shaykh : Does it not take riba?
The questioner : It does not take it if it is a current account. It does not take it if you deposited it under this name. Even if it has placed two million and does not withdraw them for the whole year, and it has placed them under the name "current," there is no riba, unless there was a condition... an agreement at the beginning of opening the balance. It opened it as current, God willing, two million. It keeps them for the whole year, and it does not take a fee.
The Shaykh : Do you know that people engage their minds with Sharia rulings? We... engage our minds with non-Sharia rulings, meaning with man-made laws. This is not reasonable. The dealings between banks and customers with banks are based on a logical, rational, and material foundation. Is this statement correct or not? So, if we assume a company has millions in the bank, but the money it withdraws during the year is a part of these millions, how can it be said that the bank conditions that the owner of this huge capital has no right to what they call interest, and we call it riba, simply because there is what? What did you call it?
The audience: Current.
The Shaykh : A current account. This current account does not move the capital... except a small part of it. This statement is not logical.
The questioner : Praise be to Allah, we are proceeding today.
The Shaykh : Correct, but my intention is that we be certain... .
Another questioner: Current debtor account. A current debtor account or... .
The Shaykh : We are talking about a different aspect than the one I am circling around. Do you know now that if a specific company has millions in one of the banks and does not withdraw from these millions in the whole year except one million, those millions that the bank works with, the company has no benefit from them?
Another questioner: What happens is that when this person who deposits the millions knows that he will consume a small part of it over the whole year, he is supposed to be aware, Shaykh, of this matter and either work with them or not put them there. Because his work requires that he take the amount; he might take all of it within a month, and he might utilize... Shaykh, in this case, he is forced to move the whole amount, not a part, and leave the remaining millions.
The Shaykh : This is an answer that aligns with logic, frankly.
Another questioner: Correct, correct, Shaykh. He does not put one million dinars in just to consume two thousand dinars from it, for example.
Another questioner: Why? It is just the people's transaction, but the bank's law is like this. This is the bank's law.
The questioner : The bank's law has a current account and it has the other side.
Another questioner: They work with the law, Shaykh. It is even better than this. He puts one thousand dinars in the Arab Bank, they work with it, and he puts one thousand dinars in the other bank, Ahli, as current...
The Shaykh : The same operation can be in one bank.
Another questioner: Yes, it is possible. He can take the account number.
Another questioner: Now, Shaykh, Ziyad is waiting for the answer.
The Shaykh : Wait, wait. I am not lost regarding Ziyad, I am not lost, but we need to clarify this point. I say, regarding your question, look at the type of your work. If your work, as you heard just now, is analysis, I said...
The questioner : A chemical worker.
The Shaykh : Yes, if there is no Sharia violation in your work itself, then it does not harm you that the bank deals with riba, just like all the employees in the state who take from the state's money, which is all in the banks. But... the employee is either one whose work is permissible by Sharia, or an employee whose work is not permissible by Sharia. Do you understand how?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So, we look at the type of work. If this work does not have a violation of the Sharia and does not have direct assistance to the forbidden, I mean by that, for example, employment in the bank itself is not permissible, because this involves direct assistance to this forbidden work. But any other work, like your work or any employee in the state, whose work, in terms of the work itself, whether he works for the state, for a company, or for a specific person, as long as his work, in terms of the work, is permissible by Sharia, then there is nothing on you.
The Shaykh : This is if a person is not depositing money in the bank and is requesting to withdraw... .
Another questioner: The second method mentioned by the brother involves two matters... a current account.
The Shaykh : Yes, a current account.
Another questioner: This current account, where money is placed in the bank, they do not take riba on it. It is available on demand; whenever he withdraws the money, whether half, a part, or all of it, the bank does not oppose him. The second type is where he places his money so that they profit from it. This is conditional; it is forbidden to withdraw it today or tomorrow or after that. It must be for five months, or for a year, or for a year and a third, or a quarter. You can withdraw it, but not all of it unless after the year ends. The nature of their partnership is that they deal with people, paying them the price of goods and taking from them. They cannot keep their money locked up. They keep their money going up and down, withdrawing and returning it at any time. In this case, which is called a current account, they do not take anything on it, but they just put it in the bank.
The Shaykh : May Allah reward you with good.
Another questioner: And beware of...
The Shaykh : I understood this matter, but I raised an objection to it. For example, suppose you are a company whose capital is much larger...
than its actual needs.
The Shaykh : Yes, meaning as a representation of the matter, it has placed in a bank, say, one million dinars... May Allah reward you. And what you need from what you called current withdrawals, and what is half of this million, and the other half that does not move for years, does the company not take riba?
Another questioner: Yes, if there is an Islamic aspect, many Muslims today who own companies...
The Shaykh : No, do not take the Islamic issue or the non-Islamic issue. We are talking about the system of banks today. And therefore, we said, what if this company is Muslim, or half Muslim? It is fine. Now we are speaking in general terms about a company dealing with one of the banks, regardless of the nature of this company... .
Another questioner: Good.
The Shaykh : But its capital deposited in the bank is much larger than the money it withdraws over the years.
Another questioner: Okay.
The Shaykh : Does it not take riba?
The questioner : It does not take it if it is a current account. It does not take it if you deposited it under this name. Even if it has placed two million and does not withdraw them for the whole year, and it has placed them under the name "current," there is no riba, unless there was a condition... an agreement at the beginning of opening the balance. It opened it as current, God willing, two million. It keeps them for the whole year, and it does not take a fee.
The Shaykh : Do you know that people engage their minds with Sharia rulings? We... engage our minds with non-Sharia rulings, meaning with man-made laws. This is not reasonable. The dealings between banks and customers with banks are based on a logical, rational, and material foundation. Is this statement correct or not? So, if we assume a company has millions in the bank, but the money it withdraws during the year is a part of these millions, how can it be said that the bank conditions that the owner of this huge capital has no right to what they call interest, and we call it riba, simply because there is what? What did you call it?
The audience: Current.
The Shaykh : A current account. This current account does not move the capital... except a small part of it. This statement is not logical.
The questioner : Praise be to Allah, we are proceeding today.
The Shaykh : Correct, but my intention is that we be certain... .
Another questioner: Current debtor account. A current debtor account or... .
The Shaykh : We are talking about a different aspect than the one I am circling around. Do you know now that if a specific company has millions in one of the banks and does not withdraw from these millions in the whole year except one million, those millions that the bank works with, the company has no benefit from them?
Another questioner: What happens is that when this person who deposits the millions knows that he will consume a small part of it over the whole year, he is supposed to be aware, Shaykh, of this matter and either work with them or not put them there. Because his work requires that he take the amount; he might take all of it within a month, and he might utilize... Shaykh, in this case, he is forced to move the whole amount, not a part, and leave the remaining millions.
The Shaykh : This is an answer that aligns with logic, frankly.
Another questioner: Correct, correct, Shaykh. He does not put one million dinars in just to consume two thousand dinars from it, for example.
Another questioner: Why? It is just the people's transaction, but the bank's law is like this. This is the bank's law.
The questioner : The bank's law has a current account and it has the other side.
Another questioner: They work with the law, Shaykh. It is even better than this. He puts one thousand dinars in the Arab Bank, they work with it, and he puts one thousand dinars in the other bank, Ahli, as current...
The Shaykh : The same operation can be in one bank.
Another questioner: Yes, it is possible. He can take the account number.
Another questioner: Now, Shaykh, Ziyad is waiting for the answer.
The Shaykh : Wait, wait. I am not lost regarding Ziyad, I am not lost, but we need to clarify this point. I say, regarding your question, look at the type of your work. If your work, as you heard just now, is analysis, I said...
The questioner : A chemical worker.
The Shaykh : Yes, if there is no Sharia violation in your work itself, then it does not harm you that the bank deals with riba, just like all the employees in the state who take from the state's money, which is all in the banks. But... the employee is either one whose work is permissible by Sharia, or an employee whose work is not permissible by Sharia. Do you understand how?
The questioner : Yes.
The Shaykh : So, we look at the type of work. If this work does not have a violation of the Sharia and does not have direct assistance to the forbidden, I mean by that, for example, employment in the bank itself is not permissible, because this involves direct assistance to this forbidden work. But any other work, like your work or any employee in the state, whose work, in terms of the work itself, whether he works for the state, for a company, or for a specific person, as long as his work, in terms of the work, is permissible by Sharia, then there is nothing on you.