The story of an incident that occurred with the Shaykh in Mina during the Hajj season with a man who debated him on the issue of the Exaltedness of Allah.

The Shaykh : Perhaps I mentioned to you before that once there was a story related to this specific topic, but it contains a lesson. I was in Mina many years ago, during one of the Hajj pilgrimages I performed, and praise be to Allah. One of the nights in Mina, we were sitting with some young men discussing scholarly matters. A dignified Shaykh entered, and it later became clear to me that he was from Al-Azhar and from the group known as the "Sharia Association," which they call the Sunni group there in Egypt. He sat down and listened to the conversation I was having. He then raised the topic of the Wahhabis of Najd, saying that these people liken the Lord of the Worlds to creation and claim that He is in a place. I was patient with him until he finished. I said to him, "What do you mean by 'in a place'? Do you mean they say that Allah is above the Throne?"

The questioner : What is the dangerous belief?

The Shaykh : And that is their belief.

The questioner : Heh

The Shaykh : Their belief, even to this day. These people are still arguing with each other. One of them who had issued a ruling said, "I swear by Allah, I do not believe that Allah is above the Throne." They said, "If so, we want a private session with you."

The questioner : Heh

The Shaykh : Huh? Our Lord says and you say no? How is this possible? The point is that this is their belief. So I entered into a logical, sequential discussion with him like this, but this logic is actually akin to philosophy, but...

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Huh? But philosophy includes what is apparent and correct, and what is false... I entered into a philosophical research with him, or rather, we might call it rational. I said to him, "Let us start with points of agreement between us." He said, "Go ahead." I said to him, "Is the created universe limited or unlimited?" He said, "Limited."

The questioner : ... .

The Shaykh : Huh, we said to him, "Well, we are now here on the surface of the earth in Mina. What is above us?" He said, "The lowest heaven." "And above that?" "The second heaven," and so on up to the seventh heaven. "And above the seventh heaven?" He said, "The Throne." I was ready to enter the topic directly at that point, but he ruined it for me.

The questioner : He?

The Shaykh : He ruined it for me.

The questioner : He did not continue on the same...

The Shaykh : Huh, because I thought he would say, "Above the heavens is the Throne, and that is the end of the universe."

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : You know how, but here he came out with the Syrian expression "mumkhutah"

The questioner : Heh

The Shaykh :"mufkhutah".
Another questioner: Mufkhutah.

The Shaykh : It was not on my mind, and one thing reminds one of another.