The story of an incident that occurred with the Shaykh in Mina during the Hajj season regarding the issue of Allah's rising above the Throne.

The Shaykh : Perhaps I mentioned to you once a story related to this very topic, but it contains a lesson. I was in Mina many years ago, during one of the Hajj pilgrimages I performed, praise be to Allah. One night in Mina, we were sitting with some young men discussing scholarly matters. When a dignified Shaykh entered, and it later became clear to me that he was from al-Azhar and from the group known as the "Sharia Association" who call themselves Sunni there in Egypt. He sat down and listened to the discussion I was having. He raised the topic of the Wahhabis, meaning the Najdis, saying that they liken the Lord of the Worlds to creation, and that they say He is in a place. So I waited for him to finish. I said to him: What do you mean by saying they say He is in a place? He said: I mean they say that Allah is above the Throne.

The questioner : What is this dangerous creed?!

The Shaykh : And it is their creed! To this day, these people are still arguing with each other about this ruling they have established. He said to him: I swear by Allah, I do not believe that Allah is above the Throne. They said to him: Then we need a private session with you! Allah says: And you say: No. How is this?
The Shaykh: The point is: this is their creed. So I entered into a logical, sequential discussion with him like this, but this logic is actually akin to philosophy, but...

The questioner : It is not like this; this invocation requires this...

The Shaykh : Ah, but philosophy has what is apparent and correct, and what is false.
The Shaykh: In summary: I entered into a philosophical research with him, or rather, it is better to call it rational. I said to him: Let us start with points that are a point of agreement between us. He said: Go ahead. I said to him: Is the created universe limited or unlimited? He said: Limited.

The questioner : Ah, created.

The Shaykh : Ah, we said to him: Good. We are now here on the surface of the earth in Mina. What is above us? He said: The lowest heaven. And above that? The second heaven, and so on to the seventh heaven. And above the seventh heaven? He said: The Throne. I was then ready to enter the topic directly, but he ruined it for me.

The questioner: He?

The Shaykh : He ruined it for me.

The questioner : He did not continue on the same...

The Shaykh : [The Shaykh laughs]. Because I thought he would say: Above the seven heavens is the Throne. The universe ends.

The questioner : Yes.

The Shaykh : I understood how. But here, in the Syrian expression, it came out as a "mufkhutah" (a surprise or shock).

The questioner : [The questioner laughs!].

The Shaykh : "Mufkhutah."

Another questioner : "Mufkhutah."

The Shaykh : It was not on my mind, and one thing reminds one of another.